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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:42 pm 
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In this Pittsburgh series, we have seen once again, why Alfonso Soriano cannot be considered a 5 tool player as Jim Hendry claimed he was at the time of his signing. He dropped the potential last out in the 9th inning today, after failing to catch the flyball hit for what was ruled a home run. That ball also, should have been caught. He was picked off second on Saturday night. Failed to tag up and advance on a deep fly in the first inning, after doubling to start the inning. He says his leg is fine, so the excuses for that don't fly. He's a streaky hitter, who when hot, can carry a team. But there are so many games where he hurts the team as much or more, as he helps, that I find myseld infuriated by him, more often than I am pleased with his play. If nothing else, they have to replace him in left field late in games, to prevent his defensive miscues from hurting the team.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Was picked off on 2nd last night, after a double, which should have been a triple if he was running hard.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:03 pm 
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I know we have like 5 second basemen role players on the roster, but at what point do you consider moving him back to his beginnings?

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:05 pm 
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im not going to fault him on the double - perhaps it could have been a triple, but if the guy is hurting and his leg isnt 100%, they had a 1 run lead at the time, i dont want him wrecking his leg for that extra base, at that moment. getting picked off was absolutely inexcusable.

his outfield play is absolutely horrendous. at the plate, i will defend his bad OBP if he can give the cubs the power they need. they didnt sign him to work counts and draw walks, i can live with that. the play in the outfield is absolutely unforgivably bad.

the cubs have him, we just have to take the bad with the good, and hope it all weighs out at the end of the year, hope he wins more games with his power than he loses with his horrifying outfield play.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:06 pm 
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M_C wrote:
I know we have like 5 second basemen role players on the roster, but at what point do you consider moving him back to his beginnings?


i believe when he was a 2nd baseman, he was statistically either the worst in the history of the game, or among the worst. thanks, but no thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:38 pm 
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I think he had problems throwing guys out at first when he played second, that's why they moved him to the outfield.

Late in the game they need to take him out of the game. If they have a lead they don't have to worry about his bat being out of the lineup.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:42 pm 
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The whole notion is flawed. You can't have a "fundamentally sound super star." There is no such thing.

That's like having an "illiterate genius", a "fat hot girl", or a "handsome Beardown".


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:43 pm 
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The guy was meant his whole career to be a DH. He can't field worth a damn and has no natural position.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:00 pm 
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UrlachersOranjKleats wrote:
The guy was meant his whole career to be a DH. He can't field worth a damn and has no natural position.


He probably could be a 1st basemen in the NL. Obviously not with the Cubs since Lee will be around for a while.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:23 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
The whole notion is flawed. You can't have a "fundamentally sound super star." There is no such thing.

That's like having an "illiterate genius", a "fat hot girl", or a "handsome Beardown".


bullshit, but I guess it depends on your definition of fat. I think some plus-size models are much hotter then Kate Moss in her prime. I think a fat chick with big tits, a flabby ass, real cute face and nice eyes is hotter then a cute chick with no curves.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Why is Mac So Angry? wrote:
Beardown wrote:
The whole notion is flawed. You can't have a "fundamentally sound super star." There is no such thing.

That's like having an "illiterate genius", a "fat hot girl", or a "handsome Beardown".

bullshit, but I guess it depends on your definition of fat. I think some plus-size models are much hotter then Kate Moss in her prime. I think a fat chick with big tits, a flabby ass, real cute face and nice eyes is hotter then a cute chick with no curves.

I can't agree with you, but I sure wish there were more like you.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Beardown-that's just patently untrue. Guy's like Michael Jordan, who are the best of the best, are also the soundest fundamental players in their sport. Alex Rodriguez, Albert Puljols, Matt Holliday, Lance Berkman, David Wright, Chipper Jones, Justin Morneau, and Hanley Ramirez are some of the players I consider true stars. They are fundamentally sound, if not spectacular, in all aspects of the game. They are not detrimental to their teams in any way. The only person I can compare Soriano to, is Manny Ramirez. He is pretty sad in the outfield as well, but has a good enough stick that they put up with those shortcomings. However, it is also the reason that Boston has tried to trade him a couple of times as well.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Just out of curiosity-does anyone know what the Cub's record without Soriano in the lineup, might be?

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:08 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Beardown-that's just patently untrue. Guy's like Michael Jordan, who are the best of the best, are also the soundest fundamental players in their sport. Alex Rodriguez, Albert Puljols, Matt Holliday, Lance Berkman, David Wright, Chipper Jones, Justin Morneau, and Hanley Ramirez are some of the players I consider true stars. They are fundamentally sound, if not spectacular, in all aspects of the game. They are not detrimental to their teams in any way. The only person I can compare Soriano to, is Manny Ramirez. He is pretty sad in the outfield as well, but has a good enough stick that they put up with those shortcomings. However, it is also the reason that Boston has tried to trade him a couple of times as well.


You mean you weren't wowed by ManRam's awesome catch-into-a-high-five-with-a-fan? :wink: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:03 pm 
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That one today was lost in the sun, it happens. Can't blame him for not catching a ball he did not see.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:08 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
That one today was lost in the sun, it happens. Can't blame him for not catching a ball he did not see.


Yeah you can. If it was a line shot that he was running to get that's one thing. You can lose it. He had time to camp under this one and shield the sun. Take the right angle. Turn his body. Use the glove. Use his thowing hand. A lot of outfielders would have done that.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:27 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
In this Pittsburgh series, we have seen once again, why Alfonso Soriano cannot be considered a 5 tool player as Jim Hendry claimed he was at the time of his signing.


Not so, he certainly can be a tool.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:54 am 
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Beardown wrote:
The whole notion is flawed. You can't have a "fundamentally sound super star." There is no such thing.

That's like having an "illiterate genius", a "fat hot girl", or a "handsome Beardown".


One of these things is not like the other...one of these things just doesn't belong...

Sorry Beardown, but there are many fundamentally sound super stars out there. In fact, I would argue that the true super stars are those who have strong fundamentals, and everyone else is just a pretender.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:43 am 
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The debate should really be whether or not Soriano is a super star which I say at this point in his career he's not. The only thing that makes him a super star is his contract.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:45 pm 
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For all of Sammy Sosa's outfield woes, I will at least give him credit for not making me hold my breath on every routine fly ball hit to him.

Soriano right now with his bum leg might be the worst fielder I've witnessed in a Cubs uniform.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Here is Pat & Ron calling the Soriano dropped ball vs the Pirates.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uy8PDe-V5NM


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:16 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
Here is Pat & Ron calling the Soriano dropped ball vs the Pirates.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uy8PDe-V5NM


Santo is a moron but hearing him freak is always funny. Plus that guy hates the Cubs, but it seems like he probably spent a fair amount of time on that.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Why is Mac So Angry? wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Here is Pat & Ron calling the Soriano dropped ball vs the Pirates.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uy8PDe-V5NM


Santo is a moron but hearing him freak is always funny. Plus that guy hates the Cubs, but it seems like he probably spent a fair amount of time on that.


santo is not a "moron", he is just a terrible color commentator if you are looking for an "x and o's" commentator. just because the guy is obviously a cubs homer, and isnt a very good speaker, doesnt mean the guy is a moron. the cubs and wgn must be very happy with him, because he must give them what they want: a very enthusiastic, clearly biased, emotional cubs icon. saying the guy is a moron seems a bit harsh, just because you dont care for his schtick.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:22 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Why is Mac So Angry? wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Here is Pat & Ron calling the Soriano dropped ball vs the Pirates.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uy8PDe-V5NM


Santo is a moron but hearing him freak is always funny. Plus that guy hates the Cubs, but it seems like he probably spent a fair amount of time on that.


santo is not a "moron", he is just a terrible color commentator if you are looking for an "x and o's" commentator. just because the guy is obviously a cubs homer, and isnt a very good speaker, doesnt mean the guy is a moron. the cubs and wgn must be very happy with him, because he must give them what they want: a very enthusiastic, clearly biased, emotional cubs icon. saying the guy is a moron seems a bit harsh, just because you dont care for his schtick.


Since when did moron become such an insult. And when you have a hard time speaking and you're in broadcasting, I consider you a moron, just ask Mike North. Plus, Ron is a really good dude with the work he does for diabetes, he isn't doing it for the spotlight because I know quite a few people who he has helped greatly over the years when no cameras or mics were around.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:27 pm 
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Why is Mac So Angry? wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Why is Mac So Angry? wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Here is Pat & Ron calling the Soriano dropped ball vs the Pirates.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uy8PDe-V5NM


Santo is a moron but hearing him freak is always funny. Plus that guy hates the Cubs, but it seems like he probably spent a fair amount of time on that.


santo is not a "moron", he is just a terrible color commentator if you are looking for an "x and o's" commentator. just because the guy is obviously a cubs homer, and isnt a very good speaker, doesnt mean the guy is a moron. the cubs and wgn must be very happy with him, because he must give them what they want: a very enthusiastic, clearly biased, emotional cubs icon. saying the guy is a moron seems a bit harsh, just because you dont care for his schtick.


Since when did moron become such an insult. And when you have a hard time speaking and you're in broadcasting, I consider you a moron, just ask Mike North. Plus, Ron is a really good dude with the work he does for diabetes, he isn't doing it for the spotlight because I know quite a few people who he has helped greatly over the years when no cameras or mics were around.


thats ridiculous! when you are a broadcaster, and you dont speak well, and you pull it off to the point where you get a large paycheck to do it year after year anyway, i dont call that moron, i call that fortunate! how is he a moron, for taking a check to provide what he does? if you want to call someone a moron, call the people paying him! what is he supposed to do? hes got himself a golden goose, because he will NEVER get fired.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:40 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Why is Mac So Angry? wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Why is Mac So Angry? wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Here is Pat & Ron calling the Soriano dropped ball vs the Pirates.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uy8PDe-V5NM


Santo is a moron but hearing him freak is always funny. Plus that guy hates the Cubs, but it seems like he probably spent a fair amount of time on that.


santo is not a "moron", he is just a terrible color commentator if you are looking for an "x and o's" commentator. just because the guy is obviously a cubs homer, and isnt a very good speaker, doesnt mean the guy is a moron. the cubs and wgn must be very happy with him, because he must give them what they want: a very enthusiastic, clearly biased, emotional cubs icon. saying the guy is a moron seems a bit harsh, just because you dont care for his schtick.


Since when did moron become such an insult. And when you have a hard time speaking and you're in broadcasting, I consider you a moron, just ask Mike North. Plus, Ron is a really good dude with the work he does for diabetes, he isn't doing it for the spotlight because I know quite a few people who he has helped greatly over the years when no cameras or mics were around.


thats ridiculous! when you are a broadcaster, and you dont speak well, and you pull it off to the point where you get a large paycheck to do it year after year anyway, i dont call that moron, i call that fortunate! how is he a moron, for taking a check to provide what he does? if you want to call someone a moron, call the people paying him! what is he supposed to do? hes got himself a golden goose, because he will NEVER get fired.


just because you collect a nice paycheck, easily fool people and can't get fired, doesn't mean you're not a moron...




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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:47 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:34 pm 
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all i am saying is that just because he is a lousy broadcaster doesnt make him a moron. it just makes him a lousy broadcaster. all we know is what we hear on the radio. calling him a moron based on what you hear on the radio during a ballgame is, well, for lack of a better word, moronic.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:37 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
all i am saying is that just because he is a lousy broadcaster doesnt make him a moron. it just makes him a lousy broadcaster. all we know is what we hear on the radio. calling him a moron based on what you hear on the radio during a ballgame is, well, for lack of a better word, moronic.


I cant stand what Ive heard of Ron as a broadcaster and I wholeheartedly agree with this. Plus arent the Bush jokes getting a bit old by now. Thats gotta be the most unorginal joke still circulating.

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