Will Cubs Bite On Any Red Sox Waivers

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82148

John Lester has a pretty reasonable contract for next year and a reasonable club option for a year after that. He is still young. He is a Theo draftee. Lester, Garza and Samardzija could leave you with an excellent and matured set of starting pitchers for when the time to compete arrives.

Ellsbury is in the same boat. He is downright inexpensive for a player of his ability and age. He also plays a key defensive position. He seemed like the one good guy in all that Boston BS last year and his teammates hated him for it.

Both moves only add a collective 20-25 million for next years payroll. How about trading a guy like Jackson who, on his best day won't develop into Ellsbury.

City of Fools · **Posted:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:43 pm

how old is DeJesus?

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82148

What does it matter.

Ellsbury and Lester are both 28. If you can get those guys, you are still young but have accelerated your rebuilding. In addition, who knows these guys better than Epstien?

The one problem is that the Sox are probably going to try to peddle you a bad contract with them.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82148

Would you take Ellsbury or Lester with Crawford in exchange for only Soriano?

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

What do you trade for them?

Jackson for any of those guys would be great, but I dont think that happens.

they probably want prospects similiar to what the cubs are trying to acquire

Jaw Breaker · **Posted:** Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:23 pm

Looks like the Cubs can have any Red Sox they want...the BoSox are disinfecting themselves of Theo.

Urlacher's missing neck · **Posted:** Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:02 pm

Is Salty available? Due to the fact that Hannigan will be a Red for life as he is all that is awesome....I must move on and find a new target for the future catcher of the Cubs.

Crystal Lake Hoffy · **Posted:** Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:57 pm

If this was 2004 or 2008 and the Red Sox were waiving Manny, Beckett and Ortiz, yes. Now? What are you going to do with these guys when your team won't be competitive for another 3-5 years?

312player · **Posted:** Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:37 am

Urlacher's missing neck wrote:

Is Salty available? Due to the fact that Hannigan will be a Red for life as he is all that is awesome....I must move on and find a new target for the future catcher of the Cubs.

No faith in Clevinger ot Castillo?

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82148

Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:

If this was 2004 or 2008 and the Red Sox were waiving Manny, Beckett and Ortiz, yes. Now? What are you going to do with these guys when your team won't be competitive for another 3-5 years?

Lester and Ellsbury are 28, the same as cornerstone Jeff Samardizja. I think Lester is way undervalued right now.

Urlacher's missing neck · **Posted:** Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:26 pm

312player wrote:

Urlacher's missing neck wrote:

Is Salty available? Due to the fact that Hannigan will be a Red for life as he is all that is awesome....I must move on and find a new target for the future catcher of the Cubs.

No faith in Clevinger ot Castillo?

Hell no. Castillo can hit a occasionally, runs like seasoned dead ass Aram and can't call a game. Stevie ballgame is a AAA lifer on a big league roster.

Gloopan Kuratz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:43 am

How in the world do the Cubs not put in a claim for Adrian Gonzales?

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

How in the world do the Cubs not put in a claim for Adrian Gonzales?

Thats a pretty big contract to pick up for a first baseman (the ultimate replaceable position)

Do you think the difference between Gonzalez and Rizzo over the next 4 years will be worth that much money? I dont

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:54 am

good dolphin wrote:

How about trading a guy like Jackson who, on his best day won't develop into Ellsbury.

That's because he's going to develop into Mike Trout.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=71303&p=1472536#p1472536

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

good dolphin wrote:

Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:

If this was 2004 or 2008 and the Red Sox were waiving Manny, Beckett and Ortiz, yes. Now? What are you going to do with these guys when your team won't be competitive for another 3-5 years?

Lester and Ellsbury are 28, the same as cornerstone Jeff Samardizja. I think Lester is way undervalued right now.

Lester and Ellsbury would be great but its a pipe dream. The cubs dont have anything the red soz want and there's probably still bad feelings from Theo's departure.

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:22 am

Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:

If this was 2004 or 2008 and the Red Sox were waiving Manny, Beckett and Ortiz, yes. Now? What are you going to do with these guys when your team won't be competitive for another 3-5 years?

I'm sure Cherington has a copy of The Cubs Way.

Gloopan Kuratz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:42 am

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

How in the world do the Cubs not put in a claim for Adrian Gonzales?

Thats a pretty big contract to pick up for a first baseman (the ultimate replaceable position)

Do you think the difference between Gonzalez and Rizzo over the next 4 years will be worth that much money? I dont

Yes the difference would be huge. Gonzales is an All Star. Trade Rizzo for pitching.

Rod · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:47 am

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

How in the world do the Cubs not put in a claim for Adrian Gonzales?

Thats a pretty big contract to pick up for a first baseman (the ultimate replaceable position)

Do you think the difference between Gonzalez and Rizzo over the next 4 years will be worth that much money? I dont

Yes the difference would be huge.

Are you sure about that?

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Gloop, Im not trying to put Rizzo in the same company as Gonzales, but Ive had a long belief that first baseman are easy to find and the difference between an All star and a regular guy is not that much.

Rizzo is an 0.8 WAR.
Gonzalez is 2.4 WAR

Thats about 10 million dollars per win.

Gloopan Kuratz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:54 am

Sorry, but I don't believe that Rizzo is the second coming.

Gonzales is a proven all star

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

Sorry, but I don't believe that Rizzo is the second coming.

Gonzales is a proven all star

I dont either. Dont paint it like that.

If Rizzo is an average starting first baseman (.280 20 HR 80 RBI) than I dont think its worth 21 million dollars to upgrade those numbers to (.300 30 100)

Its not worth it, IMO

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

immessedup17 wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloop, Im not trying to put Rizzo in the same company as Gonzales, but Ive had a long belief that first baseman are easy to find and the difference between an All star and a regular guy is not that much.

Rizzo is an 0.8 WAR.
Gonzalez is 2.4 WAR

Thats about 10 million dollars per win.

Isn't WAR based on innings played? I didn't think you could compare a guy who has only played 2 months to a guy playing a full season.

You can compare but its like batting average.

I think Rizzo will continue what he's done though.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

immessedup17 wrote:

But (for good MLB players) WAR is a number that keeps going up the longer a season goes on (innings played, of course).

Average doesn't necessarily do that.

A player can hit the same all year long, and his oWAR will still continue to go up.

Rizzo and Adrian Gonzalez's numbers are fairly similar is averaged over ~600 or so AB. Adrian Gonzalez would still have a slightly better WAR, but it would be very close.

and the difference in pay is literally 20 million dollars

Gloopan Kuratz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:35 am

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

Sorry, but I don't believe that Rizzo is the second coming.

Gonzales is a proven all star

I dont either. Dont paint it like that.

If Rizzo is an average starting first baseman (.280 20 HR 80 RBI) than I dont think its worth 21 million dollars to upgrade those numbers to (.300 30 100)

Its not worth it, IMO

I think Gonzales does better than 30 / 100 in Wrigley

Also, dont forget they would get something for Rizzo.

Gloopan Kuratz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:38 am

immessedup17 wrote:

A lot of hits / doubles / HR to left and right field in Fenway are outs at Wrigley...

A lot of fly balls to the power alleys in Fenway are home runs in Wrigley

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

Sorry, but I don't believe that Rizzo is the second coming.

Gonzales is a proven all star

I dont either. Dont paint it like that.

If Rizzo is an average starting first baseman (.280 20 HR 80 RBI) than I dont think its worth 21 million dollars to upgrade those numbers to (.300 30 100)

Its not worth it, IMO

I think Gonzales does better than 30 / 100 in Wrigley

Also, dont forget they would get something for Rizzo.

Yeah, Im not saying its crazy or anything. I just dont believe in spending a lot of money on first base.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Gloopan Kuratz wrote:

immessedup17 wrote:

A lot of hits / doubles / HR to left and right field in Fenway are outs at Wrigley...

A lot of fly balls to the power alleys in Fenway are home runs in Wrigley

True. Gonzalez has some of the best opposite field power in the league. Probably loses a few homeruns to the monster every year

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82148

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloop, Im not trying to put Rizzo in the same company as Gonzales, but Ive had a long belief that first baseman are easy to find and the difference between an All star and a regular guy is not that much.

Rizzo is an 0.8 WAR.
Gonzalez is 2.4 WAR

Thats about 10 million dollars per win.

We'll see if think the same way come October when the Cubs are trailing the Astros by 1 game

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

good dolphin wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloop, Im not trying to put Rizzo in the same company as Gonzales, but Ive had a long belief that first baseman are easy to find and the difference between an All star and a regular guy is not that much.

Rizzo is an 0.8 WAR.
Gonzalez is 2.4 WAR

Thats about 10 million dollars per win.

We'll see if think the same way come October when the Cubs are trailing the Astros by 1 game

You know it doesnt work like that.

Is it really that much of an out there opinion that productive first baseman can be found for cheap?

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82148

rogers park bryan wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Gloop, Im not trying to put Rizzo in the same company as Gonzales, but Ive had a long belief that first baseman are easy to find and the difference between an All star and a regular guy is not that much.

Rizzo is an 0.8 WAR.
Gonzalez is 2.4 WAR

Thats about 10 million dollars per win.

We'll see if think the same way come October when the Cubs are trailing the Astros by 1 game

You know it doesnt work like that.

Is it really that much of an out there opinion that productive first baseman can be found for cheap?

I think you are missing the point of referencing the Astros and Cubs in October

Will Cubs Bite On Any Red Sox Waivers

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