Looks like Mookie Betts is out of Boston if they cannot agree to an extension before the winter meetings. This could certainly all be posturing but the threat does appear genuine.

Certainly off limits in such a trade would be Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Kopech, Anderson and Giolito. I also believe there would be mutual disinterest in Cease or Lopez being a part of such a deal. None of the White Sox impending 2021 free agents hold much value either, so Colome and McCann are likely off-limits to push such a deal over the top. Boston just wouldn't be interested. Nobody wants Rodon either.

Everyone else is on the table.

Stiever and Madrigal are the two guys I'd do anything in my power to keep but ultimately, I cant say no to what Betts brings. I dont think we'd have to include both those guys but Boston isn't stupid they're likely going to ask for at least one. Boston is certainly going to want arms and the White Sox are desperately short on minor league pitching worth a shit. I'd love to believe that Vaughn, Dunning and someone else would get it done. Maybe that's enough? I dont know but I'd hope there was a way to do it without parting with Stiever or Madrigal.

As for why, the answer to this is obvious. Betts is an MVP caliber player and would make everyone around him better. Even if it was for one season it would send a resounding message that the Sox are going to be way better in 2020.

Cubs can send Bryant

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It would be absolutely inexcusable to trade for him and not extend him.

You give them Madrigal and Vaughn and maybe another piece and then you give him the extension he has earned.

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If you can extend him I think everyone other than Moncada has to be in the mix. He's 26 and a perennial All Star. If you can't extend him, I wouldn't give up anyone of note.

Giolito absolutely cannot be in the mix.

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Giolito, Moncada, Eloy and Robert are absolutely off-limits. The Red Sox would need to do something extra to get Kopech or Anderson added. Not that they even want Anderson really. The shine is off Cease and Lopez and I dont think the Sox are keen to give up on either of them anyways.

The spectre of having to pay Betts $400m makes his prospect cost much lower than you'd think.

The Red Sox are looking for cap relief so you may be able to get him for pennies on the dollar.

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it’s Cub fans who overvalue their talent .

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It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Only a fucking idiot would trade Giolito for one year of Betts. Not being a dumbass doesn’t equate to overvaluing players.

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Youre right . Kenny will trade for him 10 years from now instead .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Probably. You’re talking to the wrong guy there. I believe I’ve been as or more critical of Williams and Hahn as anyone who posts here. It’s disgraceful they are still employed.

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How many team can say they had Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr., Jim Thome and David Wells?

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Warrens statement was that if you can extend him then anyone other than Moncada would be in the mix.

Of course you would not include Giolitto or anyone noteworthy for 1 year of a guy with no extension.

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You don’t include Giolito regardless. The rotation is more of an issue than the lineup at this point. Especially when you consider the ownership group it’s impossible to make the argument that would be worth it given the different contract statuses of each player.

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After Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn and Stiever the minor league cupboard is effectively barren of anything you really care about. Madrigal and Robert are effectively called up at this point, they'll be on the Sox the instant they can be. Stiever and Vaughn are both pretty promising but its extremely unlikely they'll ascend to the point of Giolito or Moncada's usefulness. You have to look at the Sox potential core right now and ask yourself if its really good enough because as of now this is it. The accumulating talent phase ended with Vaughn's selection. They pick eleventh next year, which is way outside their effective range in drafting players.

They'll have a top 100 prospect or so every year or two and maybe once every five/ten years they'll stumble on a real blue chipper accidentally but none of that can really be counted on anymore. If they are lucky their minor leagues will just be able to keep with major league attrition, but even that is optimistic thinking.

If there is any chance Mookie Betts will sign an extension before hitting free agency he'll just stick around in Boston. They'll pay him if they can. So if he's extendable this is all a moot point.

But if the Sox get him and plug him into that lineup they'll be good. They'll probably even be the best team in the division. And maybe there's a chance that the Sox fall in love with the guy and at the end of the year decide they'll pay up for him. Maybe this is how you trick Jerry into opening his wallet, get em in the family.

Pitchers are just too damned fickle. Would you really be shocked if Giolito regressed into being a guy who was around .500 with an era in the high 3.00's or low 4.00's? Moncada, on the other hand, is the one guy they have on the team who I think has the potential of putting up Betts like numbers for several years in a row, and is also less likely to regress than Giolito.

Yeah I probably wouldn't trade Giolito, but Betts is pretty damn good, it would be awful tempting if you could get an extension. The sox lineup would be crazy good.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Betts is awesome. You don’t give up Giolito’s next however many years of cost control to pay Betts $400 million or whatever. In no baseball universe does that make sense.


Warren, I agree with you on the fickle nature of SPs and no it wouldn’t shock me but you simply can’t do that trade without destroying your rebuild completely. The Sox are too fucking cheap to pay for SP and there’s not enough in the pipeline to make up for losing the only (hopefully) reliable starter you have going in to next season.

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I love you more than words can tell
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The ownership issues regarding starting pitching is definitely part of the equation here. If you go out and sign Gerrit cole then you could include Giolitto in a trade for Betts. But we all know that the Sox are not going to spend big money on starters. So you pretty much have to keep Giolitto and hope this year is what he can be moving forward.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yawn...ASFB. you sir a at best a distant second.

I agree. You don't give up any of your "cost control" young studs for him. Cuz that 400 million will cripple you later.

Not the White Sox. Only the rich teams should do something like this. The ones that can throw good money after bad money. Sox aren't that team.

Think of it this way. Right now it would be considered optimistic-yet-reasonable to expect the addition of Kopech, Robert and Madrigal to add ten wins. It's a fickle type of projection to make because injuries can obliterate it but if were just trying to be a little more hopeful and look at the glass half full you could very easily see those three making that kind of impact.

That would give the Sox 82 wins. Great. Just over .500. That's at least ten (really more like fifteen) wins short of what it'll take to make the playoffs. Now you can expect Eloy and Cease to get better and maybe for Moncada and Anderson to stay healthier but that's not going to be fifteen wins unless Cease pulls a Giolito or Eloy just breaks baseball.

But if you add Betts you move that starting point up ten wins right away. Now you're a .500 ballclub that is adding three blue chip prospects (including a megastud) that can get them to ninety wins and from there it would only take small improvements from Cease and Eloy to push them over the top. A little luck from the injury bug, something the Sox are surely due for, and 100 wins is not a totally unrealistic prediction.

Even if its just for one year that is worth it to me. That's worth it to this team and this fanbase. Even if Betts walks the trajectory will be changed and the Sox will be a team to beat.

Do you really want Hahn making another deal with the Red Sox?

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If it's just one year it's absolutely not worth it. Cuz they're not winning the WS with him next year. C'mon. And they can't afford to pay him.

This is an absolute "NO".

Why wouldn’t you? It’s disgraceful he traded Chris Sale and even more disgraceful he kept his job afterwards but it’s looking fine now.

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The problem with this thinking is that we have some guys that likely will never be as good as they were this year.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Both teams won that trade. Red Sox got a WS. We got two young studs. We weren't winning a WS with Sale anyway. And we wouldn't have paid him like the Red Sox did last year.

So why wouldn't these two teams trade with each other again?

There's nothing to really indicate Giolito will suddenly go back to being garbage. None of the other pitchers were outstanding or did anything to make you think they've had a career year. It is quite likely Lopez and Cease actually get better.

While Anderson wont win the batting title next year he'll probably offset that by staying healthy or improving his defense incrementally. If Semien could learn to play SS then Anderson sure as hell can. You dont have to worry about Leury Garcia playing at the same level in 2020 since he'll have been replaced by Mookie Betts. Moncada and Jimenez are significantly trending upwards, it would be a surprise if they failed to improve let alone got worse. McCann could fall back to earth a bit but I doubt he'll forget how to be effective.

Also Betts will make everyone's lives much easier.

As far as I'm concerned its a no-brainer if the move can be built around Vaughn. If requires Madrigal its a tough bill to swallow but you do it.

Getting a third team involved is another possible path to making it work, as I'm pretty sure Boston isn't too interested in a player of Vaughn's profile and probably wants arms instead.

Absolutely.

If it's Madrigal and Vaughn and some other random piece, you do that in a heartbeat. Provided you sign Betts to the extension of course.

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