I still don't believe in the Royals, but I definitely think the Sox could finish third behind Detroit and somebody. Maybe they could finish fourth. I just don't see their starting pitching as a "strength" the way they seem to. It's okay. It has potential to be excellent. But it could be shitty too.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

The sooner they pull the trigger on a Gavin Floyd deal, the better. I've seen enough!

Guthrie isn't a particularly good pitcher. He just destroyed the Sox last year so we view him as better than he is. The same is true for Chen. Also the Royals have maybe two arms in the bullpen that are any good and no longer have a closer.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Dempster get 13.5 per.

If I were the Sox, I'd looke to extend Floyd if they could keep the price at under 10 million per year.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

So that means theyll only win 10 against the Sox this year then ?

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I thought they should have done that instead of just exercising his option. But you and I seem to be the only members of Sox Nation that don't regard him as a worthless bum.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

So, "A guy who you trade 100% of the time when the right deal comes along" = worthless bum in your eye. Got it.

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What kind of claptrap is that, Frank? You trade any guy 100% of the time for the right deal. You've compared Floyd unfavorably to less than mediocre guys right in this thread. You'll see what Floyd is worth on the open market after this season.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Floyd is an average to slightly above average pitcher. Nothing more.

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What is he going to get $ wise doesn't equate to what he is worth.

I never called Floyd a worthless bum. I said he was a tradeable 3rd or 4th starter on the Sox, and nothing more. You think he can be an ace. Maybe he will be some day. But more often than not since his career year in 2008 its been "losing pitcher" Gavin Floyd.

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When has anyone claimed Gavin could be an ace???

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

If I've called Floyd a bum like JoeOrr claims, than he's pretty much made Floyd out to be Jack Morris in the 80's

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That's a guy that's not so easy to come by. If you check the Cubs section there is unfettered joy (including Greinke comparisons) over the possible signing of a guy just like him for $5.5 million a year more than Floyd is making.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

You're blowing my mind, Frank.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

There's obvious value in a guy that averages 200 innings a year.

But his inconsistency is maddening to the point where you sometimes just want to see someone else because you're tired of seeing the same stuff from the same guy. Kind of like Lovie Smith. Sometimes you just need a change.

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I understand that. But the guy you don't have isn't always better than the guy you do. And in this case, he's likely to be more expensive.

I'd like the Sox to make some moves, but I sure wouldn't be looking to start with Floyd. If he's what it takes to make the deal you really want, I'm not going to cry. But I don't want to give him away like they gave away Swisher and Vazquez.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

There you go with small game Javy again.

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Because it's ridiculous to give away a solid 200 inning starter that wins at least half his starts for Brent Lillibridge and a backup catcher. That may have cost them the division in 2009. They were one starter short.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Javy nearly cost them the division in 2008 by pissing down his pantleg in crunch time. He also gave away game 1 of the ALDS that year.

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No, that was Ozzie who knew all year that he couldn't go on short rest and then went out and sent him out on it.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

The only way that happens is if he gets hurt. When his agent looks around and sees what these other goofs are signing for there is no way he advises him to take a short deal. The best move is to trade Gavin and fill holes on the roster (CF). Sure they can keep him, let him walk after the season and get a draft pick but I think by trading him they can acquire an impact player who can help now and in the future.

They don't have a hole in center. They've got a guy coming off a .760 OPS in his first full season who plays a more than adequate center.

Who is the impact player they're going to get for Floyd and do you really trust the Sox to identify him? Sure, they can probably get Tyler Flowers and Brent Lillibridge for him.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

De Aza is a hole now? Wow...guess that's something you have to watch him every day to see.

Floyd has more value to the Sox than in a trade

The guy hates DeAza for some unknown reason. It certainly can't be because of his defense since every metric known to man shows him to be average to slightly above. Why this guy is Keyer Soze's scapegoat, who knows? But it makes it very easy to dismiss every other opinion he holds.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Frank, isn't there value in an innings eating #3?

I think your expectations for Floyd and Javy are unrealistic.

Just because theyre not Aces doesn't make em worthless

I think Frank is going to say he doesn't consider them "worthless", but I do think he undervalues that type of guy. You're not going to have four Justin Verlanders. You need a couple Anibal Sanchezes. Some team will even overpay for him.

Why would you trade Floyd for some 20 year old guy who you are going to be ecstatic about turning into a Floyd in four or five years? If he is capable, which is doubtful.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

It doesn't make rational sense, but there becomes a fatigue factor with seeing the same guy make the same mistakes and have the same issues.

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I hear you. That's why I thought Shields and Floyd would have been a good swap. Two similar guys making the same money with fanbases that were tired of them. I just don't want to trade Floyd for two guys that will be lucky to be Floyd three years down the road.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

I never called Gavin worthless. I just called him a guy. That's exactly what he is. a 3rd starter on a decent team, a 4th starter on a good-great team, a 1 or a 2 on a bad team. He's a #4 on the Sox. He is a moveable and replaceable piece.

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Frank agree with everything up to replaceable

Solid #3s don't grow on trees. Didn't the Sox have issues with that on the eatly 2000s? They couldn't find a decent 5th starter (much less 3rd)