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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:26 pm 
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This has been far and away one of the more interesting off seasons that the White Sox have had in some time. There are just too many different ways to read it. I've been struck by the following:

1. The DH seems to be viewed by the quants/eggheads as the least important position on the team, but the White Sox seem to have made
it a priority this off season. I wonder if the old Kenny v. Ozzie debate concerning the DH has been reprised or if everyone is in lock step
with this initiative;
2. The White Sox must think that Zack Collins is crap, otherwise there would be no need to bring in both a DH and a catcher;
3. Unless all the speculation about Grandal DHing is wrong, the White Sox must think that Eloy Jimenez has a future in left field;
4. The White Sox weren't hoodwinked by McCann's 2019 and clearly thought that catcher was more of a problem than many of us did; and
5. The White Sox aren't expecting anything from Andrew Vaughn anytime soon.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:00 pm 
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It’s too early to write off Zack Collins or to rely on him to be good. He has power, and he takes walks.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:19 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hearing Puig might be willing to accept a 1 year "prove it" deal.


Absolutely do it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:46 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Who does Encarnacion take ABs from? Grandal/McCann. Doesn't that force Grandal to catch 20 more games than he should? And if that's true, doesn't that lead to trading McCann?

I consider the Grandal(100 games)McCann(60 games) duo a defensive key to a championship team. I'm worried this fucks up a situation that I like. Over a 36 yr old, who may not even be here when it's time to compete for a trophy?

Sox have a brutish lineup. Twins had a brutish lineup that was swept out of the playoffs. Yanks had a brutish lineup that got sent home. The goal is MORE than winning a shit division. Building the young pitching is still the key to the championship. Let's make sure we do that by keeping McCann and keeping a big investment, Grandal, fresh.

Yeah I am sure McCann is watching all these moves and wondering what that means for him? Looking more and more like he is a one game a week catcher or gets traded

Baseball isn't a video game. This guy adds 5 wins, that guy adds 3 wins. Most times it doesn't work that way. Signing Encarnacion doesn't seem to be a cohesive move. It seems like a fantasy team move. It just doesn't sit right with me.



It's a low risk move for a possible big bat. It doesn't hog-tie them in the future. It's actually a great move. If the guy is too old to hit, he'll be gone. No worries. It beats presiding over the career decline of Nick Castellanos. The truth is, the Grandal signing is far more questionable.


What issue do you have with Yasmani? He filled an hole, has a good bat, he's consistently rated as one of the best behind the plate and his contract appears to be a bargain a month later.

He's not the catcher you think he is. He's average at best plus framing. And that will go away. It always does.


What makes you say that? He's got a good arm and his release is quick. And while some people poo-poo catchers that frame pitches well, it does steal strikes or rather "keeps" strikes. Catchers that do not significantly move their gloves around the plate while pitches are on the way and have soft hands when catching the ball are very valuable. This was a problem last year with all of the Sox catchers, particularly those not named McCann. I've read a lot about scouting reports about him and by rep he is considered excellent as a receiver.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:51 pm 
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Bababooey wrote:
https://twitter.com/HotStoveintel/status/1210311982244618240?s=20

This guy gets it. Twins still have a couple major moves to make as well.


I know that you hope that they do. Their problem is that the Twins are going to be in a bidding war with teams like the Nationals, the Braves, and a couple of other teams. They may have to turn to a trade or two in order to improve themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:57 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Grandal and EE actually walk. Not worried on the money on either. Far more worried about Tim Anderson, and that his flukey season convinced them that shortstop is locked down.


If you don't believe that a guy who wins a batting title at his age hasn't locked down his position, I don't know what you want a player to prove himself. He hits. He hits with power. He steals bases. Yeah, he makes errors defensively. It probably will get better in that he is still learning his footwork but the tools are certainly there.


He doesn’t get on base, and he’s terrible defensively. I doubt he hits .320 again which is where he needs to be to be a plus offensive player.


He does get on base. YOu don't win a batting title and not get on base. His OBP was around .360. He will walk more, especially with the guys hitting around him. He also hits with power which a lot of short-stops in baseball do not do.

I have to laugh at some of you "Sox" fans who have a Batting Champion and an RBI champion on their team and are still pissing and moaning about something. It really is funny. Nardi bags on Abreu and now you bag on Anderson. Funny stuff.

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Oh, he might have went on livin'
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When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip


Last edited by The Hawk on Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:58 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hearing Puig might be willing to accept a 1 year "prove it" deal.


Absolutely do it.


Oh....HELL NO. NO WAY. The guy is poison, on and off the field. :drunken: :drunken: :drunken:

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:01 pm 
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The Twins aren't going away.

They won't be "101 wins" good again, but they'll be 90-95 wins.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:03 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hearing Puig might be willing to accept a 1 year "prove it" deal.


Absolutely do it.


Oh....HELL NO. NO WAY. The guy is poison, on and off the field. :drunken: :drunken: :drunken:


On a 1 year deal for around $10 million? They'd be crazy not to.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hearing Puig might be willing to accept a 1 year "prove it" deal.


Absolutely do it.


Oh....HELL NO. NO WAY. The guy is poison, on and off the field. :drunken: :drunken: :drunken:


On a 1 year deal for around $10 million? They'd be crazy not to.


I just think that it would be a big risk that pretty much doesn't have much of an upside. Why do it? This guy is a loose cannon. They've go a 24 year old outfielder and some young guys that can be moved in to hit right handed and play right field. They shouldn't get this asshole.

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Oh, he might have went on livin'
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When he tried to match the Ranger
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:16 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
The Twins aren't going away.

They won't be "101 wins" good again, but they'll be 90-95 wins.


No they won't. Its all good. It'll be a division race. WHAT A F*ing novelty, eh? The Sox now should go after Maybe Hudson and a crafty lefty for the pen. Maybe Luriano?

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Oh, he might have went on livin'
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When he tried to match the Ranger
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:23 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Grandal and EE actually walk. Not worried on the money on either. Far more worried about Tim Anderson, and that his flukey season convinced them that shortstop is locked down.


If you don't believe that a guy who wins a batting title at his age hasn't locked down his position, I don't know what you want a player to prove himself. He hits. He hits with power. He steals bases. Yeah, he makes errors defensively. It probably will get better in that he is still learning his footwork but the tools are certainly there.


He doesn’t get on base, and he’s terrible defensively. I doubt he hits .320 again which is where he needs to be to be a plus offensive player.


He does get on base. YOu don't win a batting title and not get on base. His OBP was around .360. He will walk more, especially with the guys hitting around him. He also hits with power which a lot of short-stops in baseball do not do.

I have to laugh at some of you "Sox" fans who have a Batting Champion and an RBI champion on their team and are still pissing and moaning about something. It really is funny. Nardi bags on Abreu and now you bag on Anderson. Funny stuff.


He got on base last year. Before that he has two seasons at .280 OBP. That’s terrible. And I don’t think he’s going to win the batting title again. Hope he can keep it up.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:36 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Grandal and EE actually walk. Not worried on the money on either. Far more worried about Tim Anderson, and that his flukey season convinced them that shortstop is locked down.


If you don't believe that a guy who wins a batting title at his age hasn't locked down his position, I don't know what you want a player to prove himself. He hits. He hits with power. He steals bases. Yeah, he makes errors defensively. It probably will get better in that he is still learning his footwork but the tools are certainly there.


He doesn’t get on base, and he’s terrible defensively. I doubt he hits .320 again which is where he needs to be to be a plus offensive player.


He does get on base. YOu don't win a batting title and not get on base. His OBP was around .360. He will walk more, especially with the guys hitting around him. He also hits with power which a lot of short-stops in baseball do not do.

I have to laugh at some of you "Sox" fans who have a Batting Champion and an RBI champion on their team and are still pissing and moaning about something. It really is funny. Nardi bags on Abreu and now you bag on Anderson. Funny stuff.


He got on base last year. Before that he has two seasons at .280 OBP. That’s terrible. And I don’t think he’s going to win the batting title again. Hope he can keep it up.


You have to give the guy credit for the year he had. He is still very young. As for winning a batting title again, he doesn't have to. Guys who win multiple batting titles are pretty damned rare. He pretty much has shown himself to be a 4-5 tool player in the major leagues. These kind of guys are pretty rare. The Sox will have three of them next year in Anderson, Moncada, and Robert. Pretty tough to find another team in all of baseball with these caliber athletes on their team.

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Oh, he might have went on livin'
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When he tried to match the Ranger
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:36 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hearing Puig might be willing to accept a 1 year "prove it" deal.


Absolutely do it.


Oh....HELL NO. NO WAY. The guy is poison, on and off the field. :drunken: :drunken: :drunken:


On a 1 year deal for around $10 million? They'd be crazy not to.

Leury says, "What about me???"



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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:16 pm 
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Puig is interesting, but would he be ok with being a platoon player? He also has fallen off the last few years.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:15 am 
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Puig would have to be a 4th OF, and would alow them to replace both Eloy and Mazara defensively in close games. He would also be able to play CF if Robert is overmatched against certain starters.

I read today that McCann caught Keuchel at Arkansas. I could see him catching Keuchel and Giolito and Grandal catching the rest.

If they were to sign both Encarnacion and Puig, this team would have basically no offensive holes, and they could take their time with Madrigal if he needs it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:19 am 
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I think it would be more of a platoon situation with Mazara and Puig.

Not sure if I would want Puig around all the young guys. Puig is basically the anti Abreu.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:09 am 
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Warren Newson wrote:
This has been far and away one of the more interesting off seasons that the White Sox have had in some time. There are just too many different ways to read it. I've been struck by the following:

1. The DH seems to be viewed by the quants/eggheads as the least important position on the team, but the White Sox seem to have made
it a priority this off season. I wonder if the old Kenny v. Ozzie debate concerning the DH has been reprised or if everyone is in lock step
with this initiative;
2. The White Sox must think that Zack Collins is crap, otherwise there would be no need to bring in both a DH and a catcher;
3. Unless all the speculation about Grandal DHing is wrong, the White Sox must think that Eloy Jimenez has a future in left field;
4. The White Sox weren't hoodwinked by McCann's 2019 and clearly thought that catcher was more of a problem than many of us did; and
5. The White Sox aren't expecting anything from Andrew Vaughn anytime soon.


Vaughn is interesting. He plays a position that most teams are able to fill and is supposedly a quick riser. I guess you can make an argument he'll be the DH/1B next season with EE on a 1 year deal (although there is that 2nd year option).

Grandal is not going to catch every day, but most days. I would imagine he'll be out there 4x a week with an occasional start at 1B/DH. I expect McCann to be the primary backup with 1-2 starts a week. Collins is unproven on a team trying to win next season. He'll have to earn a roster spot, but there's a scenario where he could get enough at-bats pinch hitting, and some starts at C, 1B or DH. Still though, he'll have to earn a roster spot.

They did surprise me with the EE move. I also assumed they would rotate the 3 catchers and Abreu vs. having EE for most of those games (given age, he probably will be rested 1-2 a week).

Still think they need to add a veteran OF and more pitching from the bullpen.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:50 am 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
Puig would have to be a 4th OF, and would alow them to replace both Eloy and Mazara defensively in close games. He would also be able to play CF if Robert is overmatched against certain starters.

I read today that McCann caught Keuchel at Arkansas. I could see him catching Keuchel and Giolito and Grandal catching the rest.

If they were to sign both Encarnacion and Puig, this team would have basically no offensive holes, and they could take their time with Madrigal if he needs it.


Madrigal hit .331 at AAA and won a minor league gold glove. Sure, there are always things to work on but I don't think he needs more time

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:34 am 
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I don't what to think of Puig. A 1-year deal.....fine. He's a turd, but he'd have value.

Reminds of Carl Everett....which actually worked out. They don't have an Ozzie Guillen running the team to keep people in line. Not sure if there's a player (Abreu) who could do that.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:30 am 
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https://twitter.com/SoxMach_pnoles/stat ... 22560?s=20

This guy is a Sox fan, at least he's being realistic.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:33 am 
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WAR, what is it good for?

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:34 am 
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Bababooey wrote:
https://twitter.com/SoxMach_pnoles/status/1210576369987522560?s=20

This guy is a Sox fan, at least he's being realistic.

What is your White Sox win prediction?

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:47 am 
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Bababooey wrote:
https://twitter.com/SoxMach_pnoles/status/1210576369987522560?s=20

This guy is a Sox fan, at least he's being realistic.



Grade A, D-Bag.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bababooey wrote:
https://twitter.com/SoxMach_pnoles/status/1210576369987522560?s=20

This guy is a Sox fan, at least he's being realistic.

What is your White Sox win prediction?


I would go 78 wins. Think you'll see Anderson, Giolito, Abreu, and Grandal have their productivity slip. People are over their skis about this offense, it'll be good but not great. Pitching and defense mediocre at best.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/tim-anderso ... wild-year/


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:18 am 
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RFDC wrote:
I think it would be more of a platoon situation with Mazara and Puig.

Not sure if I would want Puig around all the young guys. Puig is basically the anti Abreu.


That's right. I'd rather that they keep Engel or a guy like that around.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:21 am 
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Engel sucks. He is a 5th OF at best. His defense and baserunning were not good last year and that is the only reason he played in MLB. His offensive production isn't much better than the pitchers spot in the NL.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:22 am 
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Bababooey wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bababooey wrote:
https://twitter.com/SoxMach_pnoles/status/1210576369987522560?s=20

This guy is a Sox fan, at least he's being realistic.

What is your White Sox win prediction?


I would go 78 wins. Think you'll see Anderson, Giolito, Abreu, and Grandal have their productivity slip. People are over their skis about this offense, it'll be good but not great. Pitching and defense mediocre at best.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/tim-anderso ... wild-year/

Ok. Will bump this later.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:38 am 
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Bababooey wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bababooey wrote:
https://twitter.com/SoxMach_pnoles/status/1210576369987522560?s=20

This guy is a Sox fan, at least he's being realistic.

What is your White Sox win prediction?


I would go 78 wins. Think you'll see Anderson, Giolito, Abreu, and Grandal have their productivity slip. People are over their skis about this offense, it'll be good but not great. Pitching and defense mediocre at best.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/tim-anderso ... wild-year/


Hilarious. Typical Cub fan. Typically ignorant. This team wins 90+ games.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:41 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Engel sucks. He is a 5th OF at best. His defense and baserunning were not good last year and that is the only reason he played in MLB. His offensive production isn't much better than the pitchers spot in the NL.


You are nuts about his defense being "not good". He is a terrific defensive outfielder and came on in the last 3rd of the year as a hitter.

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