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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 am 
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Bababooey wrote:
Imagine if they had actually drafted well.

Carson Fulmer 8th Overall 2015 Zach Collins 10th Overall 2016 Zack Burdi 26th Overall 2016 Jake Burger 11th Overall 2017 Blake Rutherford 16th Overall 2018 (acq. from NYY)


There is an article floating out there, the in the last 10yrs the Sox are 2nd to the Stros in drafting.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:48 pm 
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Cashman wrote:
Bababooey wrote:
Imagine if they had actually drafted well.

Carson Fulmer 8th Overall 2015 Zach Collins 10th Overall 2016 Zack Burdi 26th Overall 2016 Jake Burger 11th Overall 2017 Blake Rutherford 16th Overall 2018 (acq. from NYY)


There is an article floating out there, the in the last 10yrs the Sox are 2nd to the Stros in drafting.


As a guy who has to a small extent some experience in drafting and scouting players I have to say that it really is a crap shoot. Particularly when you are talking about high school and to some extent JC players. To me, the ability of some scouts to be able to PROJECT what a kid is going to be like when he is 21-23 years old really separates the good scouts from the average ones.

But even they admit that it still is a guess. And this is why I think more and more major league teams are investing more and more resources in scouting the Latin American and South American players. The major reason is that these kids play baseball all week and day long. It is their ticket out of poverty and they and their families know it. And when you get kids that are hungry that way and also introduce them to learning good baseball techniques, these kids do have a leg up sometimes over our high school and college players.

I also have to say that unfortunately injuries occur to young players that knock them out of achieving their potential and I think that it is wrong to blame an organization that drafts a kid high and then that kid breaks his leg or foot severely or blows out his arm. that isn't the fault of the organization or the player unless the player does something really stupid.

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Last edited by The Hawk on Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:06 pm 
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Bababooey wrote:
Imagine if they had actually drafted well.

Carson Fulmer 8th Overall 2015 Zach Collins 10th Overall 2016 Zack Burdi 26th Overall 2016 Jake Burger 11th Overall 2017 Blake Rutherford 16th Overall 2018 (acq. from NYY)
Conveniently left off Rodon and Anderson.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:32 pm 
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Can you trust Giolito?

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:55 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Bababooey wrote:
Imagine if they had actually drafted well.

Carson Fulmer 8th Overall 2015 Zach Collins 10th Overall 2016 Zack Burdi 26th Overall 2016 Jake Burger 11th Overall 2017 Blake Rutherford 16th Overall 2018 (acq. from NYY)


There is an article floating out there, the in the last 10yrs the Sox are 2nd to the Stros in drafting.


As a guy who has to a small extent some experience in drafting and scouting players I have to say that it really is a crap shoot. Particularly when you are talking about high school and to some extent JC players. To me, the ability of some scouts to be able to PROJECT what a kid is going to be like when he is 21-23 years old really separates the good scouts from the average ones.

But even they admit that it still is a guess. And this is why I think more and more major league teams are investing more and more resources in scouting the Latin American and South American players. The major reason is that these kids play baseball all week and day long. It is their ticket out of poverty and they and their families know it. And when you get kids that are hungry that way and also introduce them to learning good baseball techniques.

I also have to say that unfortunately injuries occur to young players that knock them out of achieving their potential and I think that it is wrong to blame an organization that drafts a kid high and then that kid breaks his leg or foot severely or blows out his arm. that isn't the fault of the organization or the player unless the player does something really stupid.

Jake Burger was fat and had a pisspoor arm(3rd baseman, my ass)
Carson Fulmer was a mechanical disaster


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:18 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


I'd say that the odds are that Giolito will be a mainstay in the pitching rotation You never know about any pitcher but he has good mechanics, has two great catchers receiving for him and should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:22 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


More than you can Joe Biden.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:23 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Bababooey wrote:
Imagine if they had actually drafted well.

Carson Fulmer 8th Overall 2015 Zach Collins 10th Overall 2016 Zack Burdi 26th Overall 2016 Jake Burger 11th Overall 2017 Blake Rutherford 16th Overall 2018 (acq. from NYY)


There is an article floating out there, the in the last 10yrs the Sox are 2nd to the Stros in drafting.


As a guy who has to a small extent some experience in drafting and scouting players I have to say that it really is a crap shoot. Particularly when you are talking about high school and to some extent JC players. To me, the ability of some scouts to be able to PROJECT what a kid is going to be like when he is 21-23 years old really separates the good scouts from the average ones.

But even they admit that it still is a guess. And this is why I think more and more major league teams are investing more and more resources in scouting the Latin American and South American players. The major reason is that these kids play baseball all week and day long. It is their ticket out of poverty and they and their families know it. And when you get kids that are hungry that way and also introduce them to learning good baseball techniques.

I also have to say that unfortunately injuries occur to young players that knock them out of achieving their potential and I think that it is wrong to blame an organization that drafts a kid high and then that kid breaks his leg or foot severely or blows out his arm. that isn't the fault of the organization or the player unless the player does something really stupid.

Jake Burger was fat and had a pisspoor arm(3rd baseman, my ass)
Carson Fulmer was a mechanical disaster


Jake Burger was maybe the best hitting prospect in that draft and was a pretty good 3rd baseman defensively. He got hurt TWICE. Fulmer really disappointed me and I was wrong about him. His problem was not mechanics in my estimation, it was his failure to hit his spots and he never learned to pitch when he was ahead in the count. He wasted way too many pitches. that isn't mechanics, that, to me, was the lack of balls.

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Oh, he might have went on livin'
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When he tried to match the Ranger
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:28 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


More than you can Joe Biden.

:lol: :lol: that is a high bar

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:49 am 
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The Hawk wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


I'd say that the odds are that Giolito will be a mainstay in the pitching rotation You never know about any pitcher but he has good mechanics, has two great catchers receiving for him and should be fine.


We need him to be the all star and ace for this to work. He can't be Javier Vasquez

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:09 am 
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Nas wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


I'd say that the odds are that Giolito will be a mainstay in the pitching rotation You never know about any pitcher but he has good mechanics, has two great catchers receiving for him and should be fine.


We need him to be the all star and ace for this to work. He can't be Javier Vasquez


He is not an ace, he is a solid #2.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:10 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Carson Fulmer was a mechanical disaster



The crazy thing is, you weren't scouting his team mate?


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:26 am 
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Cashman wrote:
Nas wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


I'd say that the odds are that Giolito will be a mainstay in the pitching rotation You never know about any pitcher but he has good mechanics, has two great catchers receiving for him and should be fine.


We need him to be the all star and ace for this to work. He can't be Javier Vasquez


He is not an ace, he is a solid #2.

Here's the thing. You can have #2 stuff and still be an ace. There are HOFers with #2 stuff. Giolito definitely has what it takes mentally to make himself an ace. As long as you have that go to pitch, and he has a go to, ace is a possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:33 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Nas wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


I'd say that the odds are that Giolito will be a mainstay in the pitching rotation You never know about any pitcher but he has good mechanics, has two great catchers receiving for him and should be fine.


We need him to be the all star and ace for this to work. He can't be Javier Vasquez


He is not an ace, he is a solid #2.

Here's the thing. You can have #2 stuff and still be an ace. There are HOFers with #2 stuff. Giolito definitely has what it takes mentally to make himself an ace. As long as you have that go to pitch, and he has a go to, ace is a possibility.



When I think of an ace, I think of a stopper. If there is a losing streak, this guy is gonna dominate every start and stop one of those streaks. When I look to Giolito, I think we have a pretty good chance to win. I think he potentially has ace stuff, just mentally he is not an ace If he figures out that curve, maybe then. Mark Buehrle had some decent numbers, but I never thought he was an ace.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:39 am 
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Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:47 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.

Was Tom Glavine an ace? Mussina?


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:49 am 
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Tom Glavine was at times overshadowed by the other guys in his rotation. Mussina definitely had ace type years.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:51 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Tom Glavine was at times overshadowed by the other guys in his rotation. Mussina definitely had ace type years.

HOFers. #2 stuff. But BRILLIANT pitchers.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:55 am 
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Mussina was an ace with Baltimore.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:05 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.


I definitely thought Buehrle was an ace without eye popping numbers. I'm happy if Giolito is Buehrle.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:05 am 
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Nas wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Nas wrote:
Can you trust Giolito?


I'd say that the odds are that Giolito will be a mainstay in the pitching rotation You never know about any pitcher but he has good mechanics, has two great catchers receiving for him and should be fine.


We need him to be the all star and ace for this to work. He can't be Javier Vasquez


You could be right. He has the ability to be one.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:07 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.

Was Tom Glavine an ace? Mussina?


I'd say yes to both.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:10 am 
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Nas wrote:
I definitely thought Buehrle was an ace without eye popping numbers. I'm happy if Giolito is Buehrle.
12 years (11 with 31+ starts and 200+ innings), a World Series, 3 gold gloves, 4 AS games with one of them being a start. Yeah, I'll take that :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:15 am 
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I can't say Buehrle was an ace. Too many games he got lit up. But he was brilliant, despite his protests.
"Aw shucks. I just look at what fingers Catch puts down, then throw it at the mitt"


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:20 am 
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Nas wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.


I definitely thought Buehrle was an ace without eye popping numbers. I'm happy if Giolito is Buehrle.



There's no way I think Giolito will have a career like Buehrle, but I think he can have a peak with a better season or two or maybe three than Buehrle ever had.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:22 am 
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Nas wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.


I definitely thought Buehrle was an ace without eye popping numbers. I'm happy if Giolito is Buehrle.



I think Sale was an ace, not so much Burhrle, and I REALLY like me some Mark Buehrle. Outside Sale, I think the closest we have seen an ace, might be the middleish of 05-06 Jose Contreras. That dude was DOMINANT for like a year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:24 am 
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Yeah, Sox don't win the WS without that run by Jose. All the more impressive when you consider he was 42 years old when he did it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:40 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Yeah, Sox don't win the WS without that run by Jose. All the more impressive when you consider he was 42 years old when he did it.


Satchel Contreras!

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:51 am 
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Cashman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.


I definitely thought Buehrle was an ace without eye popping numbers. I'm happy if Giolito is Buehrle.



I think Sale was an ace, not so much Burhrle, and I REALLY like me some Mark Buehrle. Outside Sale, I think the closest we have seen an ace, might be the middleish of 05-06 Jose Contreras. That dude was DOMINANT for like a year.


Loiza had one as well

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:41 pm 
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Cocaine induced?


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