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Gordon Beckham expectations

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Apologist

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:08 am

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
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KW would consider dealing Becks if the return is a franchise-quality player. The uncertainly lies in in whether or not A-Gone truly is one.

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spmack

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:03 am

Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:26 pm
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Location: West Side
pizza_Place: Paisan's in Cicero

Chris_in_joliet wrote:

spmack wrote:

Chisox wrote:

Here are my expectations for Beckham:

.290-.300 career hitter. May have a big year here and there, and top out at .320.
Homers: In the 20's every year, may have a couple 30-hr seasons
Extra base hits: In the 60's every year, probably close to 70.
Runs and RBI's: 90-110 every year.
Solid defense at 2B. Above average.
Multiple All-Star appearances.
Team leader type, possible captain.
If he does all this for 15 years, Hall of Fame.

So yeah, I wouldn't trade him.

Agreed on the numbers.....

Spmack.. Are you serious that you think this too? Come on... dont make me think less of you too.

Chris, you know I'm a Cub fan, right? But look what he did in 1/2 season....not saying he's Evan Longoria but I don't think he's Mike Caruso or Scott Fletcher either....

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Apologist

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:46 am

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
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For what it's worth, Bill James has Beckham for 2010 projected

.288 BA
21 HR
96 RBI
93 R
10 SB
.360 OBA
.477 SLG

Pretty good numbers for a 3B, and elite for a 2B or SS

As far as 2B, this would rank him below Utley (who is on a HOF clip, big finger to Jeff Kent), and comparable to the likes of Pedroia, Phillips, Zobrist (look it up), Kinsler, and Cano.

Just passing the eye test, I would have to agree he can be better than all these guys not named Chase.

Renteria? you got to be kidding RPB, get that weak shit outta here.

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Apologist

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:12 am

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
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Chris_in_joliet wrote:

Im starting to become a hater of everyone that says they have one of the best roatations in baseball. Where is everyone getting their information from?

I'm not a sabremetrics guy, but don't make me break out a serious look at the rotations around baseball... Cubs #3 last i checked is Randy fuckin' Wells. 4/5 is a battle between.... wait for it.... Tom Gorzelanny, Jeff Simardzidja, Carlos Silva... these guys should not even be on a major league roster... :lol:

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:13 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Apologist wrote:

Renteria was a very good player for a long time.

World Series Champion (1997)
3x Silver Slugger Award winner (2000, 2002, 2003)
2x Gold Glove Award winner (2002, 2003)
5x All-Star selection (1998, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006)

I just think he'll be a notch below superstar. Renteria is no Slouch.

I dont think you need to put "look it up" on Zobrist anymore. Guy was a monster last year.

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Frank Coztansa

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:06 am

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I don't expect Beckham to be a league leader in HRs, but if he can drive in 90+ runs this team is going to be damn good.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:07 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Frank Coztansa wrote:

I don't expect Beckham to be a league leader in HRs, but if he can drive in 90+ runs this team is going to be damn good.

You think he'll be better than Ryne Sandberg, your favorite player as a yute.

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Curious Hair

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:34 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:29 pm
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Chris_in_joliet wrote:

Im starting to lose my fucking mind here. Im not a White Sox hater. But Im starting to become a hater of everyone that says they have one of the best roatations in baseball. Where is everyone getting their information from?

Peavy was only around for a month so I wont count him too much. He is a great pitcher but he has to be healthy this year. He hasnt pitched over 200 innings in the past two years and has only done it 3 times over an eight year span. Buehrle is 6 games over .500 for the last 4 years(WOW thats one game better than Jason Marquis) What the fuck is durablitity going to do for you if it doesnt provide you with wins? Danks and Floyd combined to go an outstanding 2 games over .500 last year with a combined 3.915 ERA. I can't take this meatball shit anymore, when the first spring training game hasnt been played yet.

I am a White Sox hater, but you can't formulate a good argument based on pitchers' wins and losses. I'd be more inclined to say that their great rotation still plays in a bandbox and still plays in front of lousy fielding. W-L is a worthless stat. Jon Garland pulled wins out of his ass. Anyway, the Sox will probably have very good pitching.

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Chris_in_joliet

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:00 pm

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 3:49 pm
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Apologist wrote:

Chris_in_joliet wrote:

Im starting to become a hater of everyone that says they have one of the best roatations in baseball. Where is everyone getting their information from?

Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Wells and who the fuck knows. I know Lilly is injured but its not like he wont be back this season.

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W_Z

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:25 pm

Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:56 pm
Posts: 37845
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Apologist wrote:

chris didn't say the cubs rotation was better. but why am i not surprised it was brought up...

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Apologist

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:41 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
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In no particular order these are some rotations that I would put into the argument:

Yankees: CC, Burnett, Pettite, Vazquez, Hughes/Chamberlain
Red Sox: Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Dice-K, Buchholz/Wakefield
Braves: Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Lowe, Kawakami
Giants: Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Zito, Bumgarner
Mariners: King Felix, Lee, Bedard, Rowland-Smith, Snell
Angels: Jered Weaver, E Santana, Saunders, Kazmir, Pineiro
Phillies: Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Moyer/Bastardo

In my opinion the only clearly better/deeper rotations are NYY and BOS, in fact I would put CWS 3rd or 4th on this list.

Of course, this time of year arguments about "Who Has the Best Rotation on Paper" never won a team anything, in real life it's usually more of a battle of who can keep 5 starters healthy.

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RFDC

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:44 pm

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm
Posts: 57257

If Hamels returns to the high level he is capable of, the Phillies rotation is as good as anyone.

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Apologist

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:49 pm

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
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W_Z wrote:

Apologist wrote:

chris didn't say the cubs rotation was better. but why am i not surprised it was brought up...

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that he did. I highly doubt any rational Cub fans would argue that the Cubs rotation is in this discussion. I'm a STL fan and I didn't include the Cards either, because after Carp and Waino (who are beast) there are a myriad of question marks.

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Hatchetman

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:19 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place

how the hell does a thread about beckham turn into analyzing the cubs' shitty rotation?

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lipidquadcab

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:45 pm

Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:17 pm
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Don't be hatin' on Renteria...he had some damn good years, 2003 especially...100 RBIs and I believe a .330 avg...if Beckham does that every year, he's in the HOF....

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bosco

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:51 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:06 pm
Posts: 918
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Apologist wrote:

not a sabremetrics guy, but don't make me break out a serious look at the rotations around baseball... Cubs #3 last i checked is Randy fuckin' Wells. 4/5 is a battle between.... wait for it.... Tom Gorzelanny, Jeff Simardzidja, Carlos Silva... these guys should not even be on a major league roster... :lol:

Based on you saying Randy Fuckin' Wells, I'm assuming you don't think much of him.

I don't know many teams who wouldn't take a 3rd starter with a 12 - 10 record & 3.05 era in their rookie year. As a matter of fact, you can make an argument that in 2009 he was the best starting pitcher in Chicago.

He didn't start until may 8Th and probably would have thrown 200 innings if he started the season in the rotation; not to mention a few more wins.

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Frank Coztansa

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:14 pm

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Who cares about the Yankees, BoSox, Phillies, or Cubs. 1 thru 5, the Sox have the best rotation in the division. That cannot really be argued. So, with that you try and win the division. Once that happens, I will take my chances with the Sox front 4 versus anybody else in baseball.

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Mustang Rob

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:38 pm

Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:15 pm
Posts: 4184
Location: Somewhere on I-355

Apologist wrote:

That's a pretty complete list Apologist.
Maybe I'd add the d-backs with Webb, Haren & Jackson at the front of their rotation.

As a Red Sox follower, I have a major concern with Beckett's every other year pattern (this is a bad year), and Dice K's bounce back ability. Not sure his issues were all WBC related.

Yankees have a huge question at the 5 spot and no idea if Javy can handle NY pressure the 2nd time around.

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Ugueth Will Shiv You

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:33 am

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Oh baseball. How I've missed your meathead arguements.

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Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:59 pm

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rogers park bryan wrote:

What is the hope for Gordon Beckham among sox fans?

What is the Ceiling and the floor?

I think he is Edgar Renteria on the high end

.275, 15-20 HR, and about 75 RBI.

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Keyser Soze

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:30 pm

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:15 pm
Posts: 16923

As a floor? He pretty much did that in 103 games last season.

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Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:33 pm

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Keyser Soze wrote:

As a floor? He pretty much did that in 103 games last season.

If he does better, great, but that's my projections for 2010.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 8:23 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Frank Coztansa wrote:

I don't expect Beckham to be a league leader in HRs, but if he can drive in 90+ runs this team is going to be damn good.

Only 86 to go!

BDs numbers will probably be close. He'll get it going.

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SHARK

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 8:43 pm

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:55 pm
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Like practically every other hitter in the White Sox lineup, I was hoping for more production from Gordon Beckham than a .211 BA with 1 homer & 3 RBI's after the first month of the regular season. Defensively, I think Beckham has made the transition to second base very good and he's said on his own segments on The SCORE that he feels more comfortable at second than he was at third base when he first arrived last June. To me, because there are other Sox not exactly hitting either, I don't think there are as many Sox fans down on #15 as they probably should at this stage. I think over the long haul with the weather warming up, Beckham will soon find his stroke. Right now, I'm not as worried about Beckham as I am about other guys on this team who are in worse shape than Gordon.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 8:46 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

SHARK does he have more total SCORE segments than RBI?

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Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 8:57 pm

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rogers park bryan wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

I don't expect Beckham to be a league leader in HRs, but if he can drive in 90+ runs this team is going to be damn good.

Only 86 to go!

BDs numbers will probably be close. He'll get it going.

My numbers seem way too optimistic at this point.

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Mr. Reason

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:02 pm

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He's just going through a rough patch. I still think Bacon will be a solid player.
The Sock are in a team hitting slump. I have seen these before. They can be brutal. Another 2 weeks of this and you can put a fork in the Sock.

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SHARK

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:39 pm

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rogers park bryan wrote:

SHARK does he have more total SCORE segments than RBI?

I don't have an exact number, but I believe Beckham's been on The SCORE more than he has RBI's, RP Bryan. For those expecting to seeing #15 benched despite his .211 BA going into tonight's game vs. Gil Meche and the Royals, think again. Ozzie says that Beckham will continue to play and seems to understand what Gordon's going through after 2 straight 0-fors in the Bronx over the weekend with 7 K's.

In fact, let me borrow a page from ESPN 1000's "Waddle & Silvy" for a moment. Would you rather see Beckham, despite his BA, continue to play or would you rather see Omar Vizquel and his worse .115 BA/Jayson Nix and his .118 BA? Ozzie's stuck between a rock and a hard place...

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Northside_Dan

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:42 pm

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SHARK wrote:

In fact, let me borrow a page from ESPN 1000's "Waddle & Silvy" for a moment. Would you rather see Beckham, despite his BA, continue to play or would you rather see Omar Vizquel and his worse .115 BA/Jayson Nix and his .118 BA? Ozzie's stuck between a rock and a hard place...

If that is a question Ozzie has seriously considered, he should be fired immediately.

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Walt Williams Neck

Post subject: Re: Gordon Beckham expectations

Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:46 am

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Under the watchful eye of Greg Walker,he has suddenly became Bobby Knoop

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