The Twins should have been able to play at home on the basis of their superior head-to-head record.

True! And if the White Sox would have won two games at the Metrodome all season the game wouldn't have happened. Baseball is a rich tapestry, Frank.

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Fire Phil Emery

If your point is that the White Sox just simply weren't as good as the Twins that's a different story. However, you said this:

Your exact stance was that since they were 12 games back that they shouldn't have attempted to try and win. The problem is that a team that was 11 games back at the exact same time was the eventual division champion. If your point is simply that you think the Twins were significantly better than the Sox that's fine but you can't fault Kenny Williams for not sharing your opinion. 12 games out clearly wasn't an insurmountable lead on a pure statistical basis. In that thread about Wisconsin, it was pretty obvious that Wisconsin was still mathematically very alive since I believe they were undefeated and in first place.
The Twins likely would have had a better chance to win playing at home. I guess we'll never know. However, we know they were unable to get it done against a team that they "had a winning record against". The statistics seem to indicate that the Twins still should have won but they didn't. It's not a lock that the Twins win in Minnesota.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There are lots of contradictions in here, but I can't wrap my head around all of them. I'll respond later.

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Fire Phil Emery

OK.

So, the Sox "snuck past the Twins" in game 163, in your opinion-- despite such a poor record in the Metrodome. The Sox also had a 4 game sweep of the Twins at the Cell that season, but of course you won't mention that.

So the Sox snuck into the playoffs, yet the Twins could not even take 2 of out 3 from the last place Royals to clinch in their own ballpark. The Sox also had to play a makeup game against the Tigers on that Monday.

The Twins were 1.5 games up with 1 game to play. Thats a terribly grim scenerio as opposed to being 12 games out with 1/2 or 2/3 of a season left go do. If the Twins won on that Sunday, and they win the division. Sox snuck by though, right? It had nothing to do with the Twins tanking.

"Rich tapestry"
Something is rich there alright, and its not the guy you went to school with.

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I'll ask you a few questions to help you.

In 2009, with one month to go in the season, was an 11 game lead insurmountable? Was a 12 game lead insurmountable?

On September 12th, 2009, the Chicago White Sox were actually .5 games ahead of the eventual division champion Minnesota and only 5 games behind current division leader Detroit. Was the division out of reach at that point?

Remember this quote too.

On September 12th, they were actually ahead of the eventual division champion and at the end of the season they would actually lose ground by 2 games from that day until the end. Do you still believe that quote is accurate?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No more cying poor or small market for the White Sox....ever.

Thats the point right?

Why? Those weren't the rules at the time.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

First off, I'm convinced that Frank is either illiterate or has a very, very low intelligence. Especially when he says stuff like this:

Um, think about that for a second. I'm saying that the Sox won because they were able to exploit a stupid rule that left home field advantage to the team that won a coin flip, rather than the team that played better during the course of the season. Your response is "the Sox played the Twins really well at home." That's the point. I'll repeat it slowly, just so it sinks in. I said "the Sox won because they got to play the game at home." You said "you didn't mention all the times the Sox won at home against the Twins." This helps your position because...well, I'm not really sure. I'm sure it seemed really astute at some point.

Yes. They weren't going to catch either team. They didn't catch either team. They didn't get particularly close. They finished four games under .500. The division was out of reach. But hey, the Sox picked up Jake Peavy and excited everyone for a week or so and sold a few extra tickets, so success.

At the end of a 162 game season, two mediocre teams won 88 games. One team beat the other team more often than not. Rather than do the logical thing and reward that superior head-to-head record, MLB had a stupid rule that called for a coin flip to determine where the game was played. The Sox won a one run game. Yes, they snuck through. Sorry that softens your Sox stiffy.

Because home field for winning more games head to head would make sense, as opposed to a coin flip, which makes no sense. You know who agrees with me? Everyone but redass Sox fans, including MLB, who immediately changed the rule so that would never happen again.

If your team is down 11 or 12 games to begin September, you should stop throwing good money after bad. There have been teams in history that have come back from that. Spectacular. Don't count on it.

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Fire Phil Emery

That's fine, but what did you want the Sox to do- refuse the coin flip since they didn't have the head-to-head advantage? What should have happened did happen- two teams tied and it was settled by a coin flip they way both teams knew it would be. Afterward MLB decided head-to-head was a better way to decide home field advantage. That's fine too. Maybe it makes sense to just break the tie with head-to-head or best run differential rather than even playing the game. There are a lot of ways you could do it. But I don't think it's correct to say Minnesota should have had the game. At the time the coin flip was the rule and the Sox won the coin flip. That's all.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm saying that the rule was nonsensical, and if a more reasonable rule was applied, the White Sox would have lost, and would not have made the playoffs in five years.

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Fire Phil Emery

And you are all knowing so you know for sure the Sox would not have won game 163 at the Metrodome.

You know for certain, apparently, that John Danks would not have shut the Twins out if the game was played indoors.

You're funny.

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You're saying the Sox would have lost if the game had been played in Minnesota? That's quite an assumption.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes

Yes

Yes

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Fire Phil Emery

That is moronic.

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I must have imagined all that hyperventilating by Sox fans, including their broadcaster, about how impossible the team found it to win in Minnesota.

The White Sox were 7-20 in Minnesota over the final three years of the Metrodome. They were 1-8 in 2008. Had the game been in Minnesota, they would have lost. This little battle of yours is itself quixotic--"We did too deserve to be the sacrificial lamb slaughtered at the hands of the Rays!"--but hey, you chose the grounds on which to pitch the battle.

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Fire Phil Emery

Again, you cannot and do not know for sure.

Maybe instead of playing the what if game about the White Sox, you should play it regarding taxi cabs.

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We have the first Konerko to the Angels rumor of the offseason.

Bill Plunkett of ocregister.com is reporting that the Angels could go after free agent Paul Konerko this offseason.

This wouldn't be the first time the Angels coveted Konerko as it came down to the Angels and the White Sox after the 2005 season but he opted to re-sign with the White Sox for a five-year deal.

IT BEGINS

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Here is the problem I have with your argument. It's fine if you didn't think the White Sox were any good. However, you can't expect Kenny Williams to mail it in just because the other team is better. In fact, the fact that the other team was better but the Sox were still mathematically very alive is actually more reason to make trades. White Sox fans still talk about the "White Flag trade". I guess you were a big fan of that one.
There is what could have happened and what actually happened. I know what actually happened, and the White Sox proved they were better than the Twins for that one night. You know what's really funny, you are citing the White Sox record in Minnesota as some undeniable proof that the Sox had no chance to win there. However, you also keep on bringing up the fact that the Twins had a better head to head record vs. the Sox. Now, logically, if the Sox had no chance of winning in Minnesota because of past results then shouldn't the Sox have had no chance of beating Minnesota anywhere because of the head to head? Don't use convenient statistics. Just like the Sox overcame the losing total head to head record they could have overcome the poor record in Minnesota that year. No one knows what would have happened.
Who disagrees? For someone who has been all over Frank for being illiterate you don't seem to get the nuance in the argument that we aren't saying the rule was right but that it doesn't make the White Sox season any poorer. Both teams started on day one knowing the rule, both played the whole way knowing the rule, and in the end, with both teams have a completely equal shot at getting an advantage, the White Sox got the benefit and ended up winning. The rule change was the right thing to do.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!