It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:10 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:48 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
Jake had a once in a lifetime season. He regresses to the mean and that's 4-6 less wins right there.


Why? His ERA won't be as great but he can win 20 games with this offense.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:43 pm
Posts: 20537
pizza_Place: Joes Pizza
Frank Coztansa wrote:
In all seriousness though Kirkwood, I believe the MLB record is actually 108 years and its not in all that serious of jeopardy.

I have no idea why you addressed me in stating this fantastic rarely known tidbit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625
I thought this was Hahn's 3rd off season?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92044
Location: To the left of my post
rogers park bryan wrote:
I thought this was Hahn's 3rd off season?
KENNY

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 10793
Location: Parrish, FL
pizza_Place: 1. Peaquods 2. Aurelios
Comparing offseasons and added wins is ridiculous. The Cubs margin of increase is much smaller given they had 96 wins. The Sox have way more potential for improvement.

Lawrie is an upgrade...not special, but an upgrade. Frazier is a clear upgrade at critical position.

I still see upgrades needed at Catcher, DH, and the OF. They look improved but hard to get excited and consider them a playoff contender.

God, I hate Adam LaRoche.

_________________
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
brick (/brik/) verb
1. block or enclose with a wall of bricks
2. Proper response would be to ask an endless series of follow ups until the person regrets having spoken to you in the first place.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm
Posts: 57234
They got a slight upgrade at catcher.

OF and DH are issues tho, no doubt.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."


Frank Coztansa wrote:
I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 10793
Location: Parrish, FL
pizza_Place: 1. Peaquods 2. Aurelios
Agreed Catcher is a slight upgrade. My point is it wasn't nearly enough of an upgrade.

_________________
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
brick (/brik/) verb
1. block or enclose with a wall of bricks
2. Proper response would be to ask an endless series of follow ups until the person regrets having spoken to you in the first place.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 847
pizza_Place: Gigio's in Des Plaines
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
Jake had a once in a lifetime season. He regresses to the mean and that's 4-6 less wins right there.


Arietta was basically just as good in 2014.

2014 WAR per start: 0.20 (25 starts)
2015 WAR per start: 0.22 (33 starts)

_________________
Bunk wrote:
Son, they’re gonna beat on your white ass like it’s a rented mule


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 13865
Location: France
pizza_Place: Baranabyis
Fucking WAR per start I've seen it all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:40 am
Posts: 1553
Location: Long Grove,IL
pizza_Place: Thin crust cheese extra cheese ....Pizza DOC
America wrote:
Fucking WAR per start I've seen it all.


How about WAR per IP... per AB ... or even per pitch?????

Where does it end......

_________________
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I don't waste my time with the Cubs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 847
pizza_Place: Gigio's in Des Plaines
America wrote:
Fucking WAR per start I've seen it all.


A quick glance shows you this:

2014: 5.0 WAR
2015: 7.3 WAR

But he had 8 fewer starts in 2014, so he was basically just as effective.

_________________
Bunk wrote:
Son, they’re gonna beat on your white ass like it’s a rented mule


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 13865
Location: France
pizza_Place: Baranabyis
THE INQUISITOR wrote:
America wrote:
Fucking WAR per start I've seen it all.


How about WAR per IP... per AB ... or even per pitch?????

Where does it end......

WAR PER WAR

it doesn't end. we are doomed to an endless stream of new stats for all eternity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 847
pizza_Place: Gigio's in Des Plaines
Why does this scare you?

_________________
Bunk wrote:
Son, they’re gonna beat on your white ass like it’s a rented mule


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 13865
Location: France
pizza_Place: Baranabyis
Scare? Lol. Let's walk it back a little.

What you did was either invent something or read something on a blog (my bet is the latter) that shrunk the WAR statistic from a season-long stat to a per game stat to make the difference appear more minimal.

.22 is 10% higher than .20. That is substantial. You wouldn't just be able to wash away that difference if it was between, say, 220 and 200. Its no different than an optical illusion.

In 2015 Arrieta had an ERA .75 points lower than 2014. He pitched 75 more innings in 2015. He walked fewer batters in 2015. Strikeouts rates were about the same. He was better in 2015 than he was in 2014, I don't give a fuck what your bullshit WAR per start napkin math says.*

* even though it too says Arrieta was better in 15 than 14.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92044
Location: To the left of my post
My greatest shame of the past year is whiskey dick.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82220
America wrote:
Its no different than an optical illusion..


Image

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Last edited by good dolphin on Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 847
pizza_Place: Gigio's in Des Plaines
America wrote:
Scare? Lol. Let's walk it back a little.

What you did was either invent something or read something on a blog (my bet is the latter) that shrunk the WAR statistic from a season-long stat to a per game stat to make the difference appear more minimal.

.22 is 10% higher than .20. That is substantial. You wouldn't just be able to wash away that difference if it was between, say, 220 and 200. Its no different than an optical illusion.

In 2015 Arrieta had an ERA .75 points lower than 2014. He pitched 75 more innings in 2015. He walked fewer batters in 2015. Strikeouts rates were about the same. He was better in 2015 than he was in 2014, I don't give a fuck what your bullshit WAR per start napkin math says.*

* even though it too says Arrieta was better in 15 than 14.


I said he was basically just as effective. If you extrapolated the 2014 WAR numbers to the 2015 GS mark, he'd have finished at 6.6 (vs 7.3). I don't see that as particularly substantial, especially in this context (where people say he had a once in a lifetime season & is due for regression). His FIP numbers, K/9, HR/9, etc were all right around the same range. He allowed a BABIP nearly 30 points lower in 2015, which could help to explain the difference in ERA. But ERA is one of the last things you should be looking at, anyway.

Analyze his fangraphs page and you'll find that he's been pretty much the same pitcher since the beginning of 2014.

_________________
Bunk wrote:
Son, they’re gonna beat on your white ass like it’s a rented mule


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:30 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:05 pm
Posts: 12449
They still need another legitimate run producer in the #4 or #5 slot in that lineup.

Most days, I view:
#1: A.Eaton
#2: M.Cabrera
#3: J.Abreu
#4: ______
#5 T.Frazier
#6:B.Lawrie
#7:A.La Roche / A.Garcia (DH)
#8: C
#9: SS

Right now, Frazier and Lawrie are either moved up or Cabrera down in the order, and La Roche / Garcia still probably have too much importance in this lineup. The bottom of this order still looks very week from #7 - #9 so they really need to be productive in the first part of the order.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 13865
Location: France
pizza_Place: Baranabyis
Don't look at the runs he gave up! No! He's a pitcher, nobody cares if he gives up any runs. That's the last thing you should be looking at.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82220
BD wrote:
They still need another legitimate run producer in the #4 or #5 slot in that lineup.

Most days, I view:
#1: A.Eaton
#2: M.Cabrera
#3: J.Abreu
#4: ______
#5 T.Frazier
#6:B.Lawrie
#7:A.La Roche / A.Garcia (DH)
#8: C
#9: SS

Right now, Frazier and Lawrie are either moved up or Cabrera down in the order, and La Roche / Garcia still probably have too much importance in this lineup. The bottom of this order still looks very week from #7 - #9 so they really need to be productive in the first part of the order.


Agreed. They are still one big bat away from being a low level contender. La Roche's presence is really gumming up the works.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's
Hawkeye Vince wrote:
Jake had a once in a lifetime season. He regresses to the mean and that's 4-6 less wins right there.



You think Greinke had one as well? He regresses too?

_________________
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 847
pizza_Place: Gigio's in Des Plaines
America wrote:
Don't look at the runs he gave up! No! He's a pitcher, nobody cares if he gives up any runs. That's the last thing you should be looking at.


You got my nuanced manner of speak mixed up twice in this response.

Yes, raw ERA is one of the last things that you should be looking at because it's a bit too dependant on team defense. I didn't say that you should disregard it altogether.

_________________
Bunk wrote:
Son, they’re gonna beat on your white ass like it’s a rented mule


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92044
Location: To the left of my post
whiskey dick wrote:
America wrote:
Don't look at the runs he gave up! No! He's a pitcher, nobody cares if he gives up any runs. That's the last thing you should be looking at.


You got my nuanced manner of speak mixed up twice in this response.

Yes, raw ERA is one of the last things that you should be looking at because it's a bit too dependant on team defense. I didn't say that you should disregard it altogether.
Instead we should rely on a made up statistics like WAR?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 847
pizza_Place: Gigio's in Des Plaines
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
whiskey dick wrote:
America wrote:
Don't look at the runs he gave up! No! He's a pitcher, nobody cares if he gives up any runs. That's the last thing you should be looking at.


You got my nuanced manner of speak mixed up twice in this response.

Yes, raw ERA is one of the last things that you should be looking at because it's a bit too dependant on team defense. I didn't say that you should disregard it altogether.
Instead we should rely on a made up statistics like WAR?


It's commonly regarded as the industry standard by REALLY SMART PEOPLE.

But if you don't care for it, then whatever. There's a whole shitload of useful statistics at your disposal. Knock yourself out.

_________________
Bunk wrote:
Son, they’re gonna beat on your white ass like it’s a rented mule


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:53 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79550
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
whiskey dick wrote:
It's commonly regarded as the industry standard by REALLY SMART PEOPLE.



Really? They can't even agree on a single version of it. I'd say it's regarded as the industry standard of fans who want to act like they know more about baseball than somebody else.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92044
Location: To the left of my post
whiskey dick wrote:
It's commonly regarded as the industry standard by REALLY SMART PEOPLE.
By who? Those who sell magazines and subscriptions to baseball fans?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that GM's aren't saying "This guy has a WAR of X, we must get him".

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
WAR is good. Use the fangraphs one.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:32 pm
Posts: 847
pizza_Place: Gigio's in Des Plaines
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
whiskey dick wrote:
It's commonly regarded as the industry standard by REALLY SMART PEOPLE.
By who? Those who sell magazines and subscriptions to baseball fans?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that GM's aren't saying "This guy has a WAR of X, we must get him".


It's embraced by people who aren't living in the stone age. And of course it's imperfect - that goes without saying.

But again, there is a shitload of useful statistics at your disposal. There is no need to rely on an antiquated stat like raw ERA.

_________________
Bunk wrote:
Son, they’re gonna beat on your white ass like it’s a rented mule


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92044
Location: To the left of my post
It is not "imperfect". It is made up.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It is not "imperfect". It is made up.


So is the theory of evolution

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group