100 RBI by 8-25

It may take another 10 years but eventually IMU will be right on Abreu.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If you ignore every modern method of sorting good players, Abreu ranks fairly high.

I hope the White Sox open the check book and sign him for 5 years at $25M per. Or higher, after all, he is a superstar and in the top 10 in RBI. It's all about scoring runs.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

What else is it about?

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

I just said it was about scoring runs. Abreu scores more runs. Trout scores less runs. It is clear cut. You'd be an IDIOT to take Trout.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Now its Abreu isn't as good as Mike Trout!

Flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop...gurggle.

_________________

Honest question. What is your explanation for Abreu's knack throughout his career RISP? While Mike Trout is who he is at all times, why is Jose Abreu better than Jose Abreu situationally? I would assume 800+ AB is a plenty big sample, isn't it? And it's pretty dramatic:

.321 .396 .555 .952

Mike Trout has been better than Jose Abreu with RISP. By a wide margin, actually.

Maybe I'm not understanding your post.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Like most guys, Mike Trout is who he is in any situation. Why is Abreu better than Jose Abreu RISP? Is it quantifiable? Is it a glitch?

Anthony Rizzo career RISP
.281 .395 .488 .883
He is not quite what Anthony Rizzo is at all times. But close enough. But definitely worse than Jose Abreu in RISP

There is no maybe about it in this thread.

_________________

If you're not scoring runs or driving them in, what are you doing?

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Okay, so you're asking me what is the reason Abreu is 10.8% better than his career stats when RISP, and why is Rizzo only 2.5% better than his career stats when RISP.

I don't know. I see that Abreu's babip with RISP is inflated and Rizzo's with RISP is his career average. Since Rizzo has always had a next man up approach and Abreu is a free swinger, Abreu may just be going harder at pitches, like a Javy Baez approach but with more contact? Rizzo has generally been a better hitter in the 4 spot than the 3 spot, when it seems more likely that Rizzo would be more focused on driving in runs (as opposed to having a strong hitter behind you when batting 3rd)

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Those are pretty much the same statement. Abreu hits better with RISP. Rizzo does not.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

I think it's a good enough reason to re-sign Abreu for 2 years and an option. Wouldn't I want a 11% better hitter RISP come playoff time? Wouldn't anybody?

I think IMU may be suggesting that the fact Abreu hits so much better with RISP is just luck or happenstance. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. But BABIP is a pitcher's stat. It doesn't necessarily "normalize" around .300 for individual batters.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Except Abreu comes up to the plate 3 times as much with bases empty or just 1 guy on first than he does with RISP. And he is a worse hitter in those scenarios. Wouldn't you want a better hitter 3 out of 4 times instead of 1 out of 4 times? Over the course of a season, now that the White Sox have more than just one really effective hitter, wouldn't you score more runs by putting more runners on and letting other hitters also have opportunities to drive in runs?

Insert Rizzo into the White Sox 2019 lineup instead of Abreu, keep everything else the same, and your team has scored more runs and won more games.

Team health versus back of the baseball card.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I don't know, but this gets back to the way the game is now viewed as if it's played on a spreadsheet. Unlike Ricky Renteria, I don't hate math. The percentages are what they are. But the object isn't to score as many runs as possible over the course of the season regardless of whether there is a correlation between differential and win percentage.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

You've now argued against Jose Abreu, since he has been driving in a good amount of runs each and every season for awhile now and the White Sox have not been winning. Apparently he doesn't drive the runs in at the right time?

As an example, Jose Abreu career stats in the seventh inning or later, in either a) a time game, b) within a run or c) potential tying run on deck:

.249/.343/.429 for a .772 OPS. His worse situational split of any listed by BR.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I don't think you really believe that the Sox recent failure to post winning records has anything to do with Jose Abreu's run production. I thought we were having a real conversation up until your last post.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

This thread is awesome

And for reference, Abreu's OPS is now at .815

.318/ .551/ .913 over the last month.

_________________

I find you very inconsistent, and I am being honest. You don't want to get into a statistics game. That makes me think you don't want to see actual truths, but let's ignore that for now.

You like Jose Abreu because he contributes to some large quantity of runs being scored compared to other players... but he actually doesn't. He has a lot of RBI, but when looking at a number like oWAR or wRC+ he isn't exceptional, especially for his position, where he ranks below average in both. And let's say you want to shit on those advanced methods of finding a player's run productivity. Well, the White Sox certainly aren't winning games due to his RBI... so where and how is his production turning into real results for his club?

A lot of people want to talk about how advanced metrics are just a fancy way to ignore what you see in front of you, but I generally don't care too much for splits except when others bring up 'oh, but he excels in this way.' I just want the hitters that perform the best over the course of a season. You give me two players over the course of a full season, and one has an OPS of .928 and the other .815, we all should know which one we're taking.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Last that I heard, the game of baseball is decided by one team scoring more runs than your opponent. IF it isn't about scoring runs, what is the game about?

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

I have no problem discussing statistics. There's no arguing with statistics. There is argument over what they mean.

I also haven't made any case for the greatness of Jose Abreu.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Um, Abreu DRIVES IN runs. The issue isn't a player scoring runs. ANd how did Mike Trout get into this discussion? HE is the best player in baseball and does everything well.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

My concern is playoff Abreu. It likely won't be 2020. It likely will be 2021 when he is 34. I'm admittedly grasping at dice looking for legit reasons why they will come up 7. He's a legit 11% better hitter RISP. Does that say something about his focus in key situations and if it does, does it say something about the keyest situation of them all, The Playoffs?

YOu just suggested that the reason that the White Sox haven't won is because of Abreu? That is nuts. Take your advanced statistics and metrics and put them where the sun doesn't shine. You continually make silly statements about baseball and how performance should be measured. This shit about the Sox not winning because Abreu doesn't drive in runs at the "right time" is idiotic.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

If that's what you took from any of my posts, that says more about you than me.

All I did was disconnect the opportunity statistic 'RBI' from how effective of a run producer a player is.

We all agree Mike Trout is the best hitter in baseball, and does more for a team's offense than any other player in baseball. But he has less RBI than Jose Abreu.

Jose Abreu's RBI count is great and all. Triple digits on August 26...something to talk about. But it isn't indicative of where he ranks as a hitter. Never will be, until you can correlate that number and team wins.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Advanced statistics are fine but they certainly do not tell the "truth" of a player's performance and typically they are used like what you are trying to do, namely downplay a player based on some situational example where statistically he may not have performed as well compared to some other situational example.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

Nor have I. IMU or My Favorite Poster and Hero better put(Irritated Bowel Syndrome) has decided to downgrade the fact that Abreu is a very good baseball player who has played on some very shitty teams since he has been on the White Sox. Nobody that I know has called him great. I sure haven't. My Favorite Poster and Hero just decided awhile back to try and piss off White Sox fans on this board with this bullshit. A Cub fan trying to run down Sox players. He does the same shit on the Bears board.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

I said it because that is what you stated in your post. And your argument about correlating RBIs and team wins of all things is ridiculous. Ernie Banks won two MVP awards for a last place team. Sometimes even great players play for terrible teams which in my eyes make them even better over-all as players. ANd if I need to explain that to you, I will.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip