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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:52 am 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Eaton is somewhere in the middle of "star" and "just a guy". He's a good hitter who delivered in the post-season. Still...there's quite a few more important hitters in that lineup in front of Eaton.



He isn't as good as Alex Rios who every Sox fan hates.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:54 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
few casual fans knew Soto either
Not so sure about that. He was runner up for rookie of the year as a teenager last season and hit 30some bombs this year.

Casual fans can name like 5 baseball players. Juan Soto isn’t one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:54 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
few casual fans knew Soto either
Not so sure about that. He was runner up for rookie of the year as a teenager last season and hit 30some bombs this year.

Casual fans can name like 5 baseball players. Juan Soto isn’t one of them.



He is now.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:54 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
few casual fans knew Soto either
Not so sure about that. He was runner up for rookie of the year as a teenager last season and hit 30some bombs this year.

Casual fans can name like 5 baseball players. Juan Soto isn’t one of them.



He is now.

Maybe.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:57 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Eaton is a better version of Pierzynski and Sox fans LOVE him so I don’t see why Eaton gets a bad rap for being the same thing .
AJ was much a more productive offensive player relative to his position than Eaton is/was.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:00 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Stop it. He is more than just a guy.


Really? You think Adam Eaton is a star? He's a corner outfielder without power. He looks better than he is because the current crop of outfielders is worse than at any time probably in baseball history.

I'm certainly not crying because the Sox traded him for a top of the rotation starter plus another useful pitcher and another guy we haven't seen yet.


maybe you were typing when it posted. The post directly above this explicitly states he is not a star.

He is a guy who does a lot of things that win you games. Like I said, he is a starter level player on a good team. Remember at the time of the trade he was the best defensive RF in baseball by some metrics.

I'm not crying about the trade either but I don't think the Nats are today.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:07 am 
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If the Brewers had simply done their job and finished the Nats in the WC game, nobody gives a shit about Adam Eaton.

He is a good player.

Good for him.

If the Sox got a top of the rotation pitcher for him, that's a good trade any day.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:08 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Eaton is a better version of Pierzynski and Sox fans LOVE him so I don’t see why Eaton gets a bad rap for being the same thing .
AJ was much a more productive offensive player relative to his position than Eaton is/was.



One guy plays one of the most important positions on the field. The other plays an outfield corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:08 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The other plays an outfield corner.
....and doesn't hit homers.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:09 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Eaton is a better version of Pierzynski and Sox fans LOVE him so I don’t see why Eaton gets a bad rap for being the same thing .
AJ was much a more productive offensive player relative to his position than Eaton is/was.



One guy plays one of the most important positions on the field. The other plays an outfield corner.

Joe, you need corner outfielders too. You're acting like he was the ball boy for this team.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:09 am 
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Right....i said Eaton was very good.
AJ and Rios were definitely better players.

Sox fans hated Rios because his contract was HUGE to the point of restricting other players. he was good, but not worth what Kenny agreed to take on.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:10 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The other plays an outfield corner.
....and doesn't hit homers.

...and wins the World Series

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:16 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Eaton is a better version of Pierzynski and Sox fans LOVE him so I don’t see why Eaton gets a bad rap for being the same thing .

Suddenly we get amnesia? The guy made a ton of bonehead plays. Especially on the bases.


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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:23 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Eaton is a better version of Pierzynski and Sox fans LOVE him so I don’t see why Eaton gets a bad rap for being the same thing .
AJ was much a more productive offensive player relative to his position than Eaton is/was.



One guy plays one of the most important positions on the field. The other plays an outfield corner.

Joe, you need corner outfielders too. You're acting like he was the ball boy for this team.



I understand. But I'd like my corner outfielders to have more than 15 home run power, especially in this era where paraplegics hit 20 in their sleep.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:25 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
...and wins the World Series
Nats team > Sox team so not sure what your point is there. You and gd seem to overrate Eaton. He is more than 'just a guy', but he's never been an All Star- not even close- so not sure why you guys seem to over love him.

He is a career 19 WAR player.

For reference, other career WAR from "just a guy/not a star" type players
Alex Rios 27.4
A.J. Pierzynski 23.9
Jason Heyward 36.9
Lance Johnson 30.2
JD Drew 44.9
Ben Zobrist 45.2
Nick Markakis 33.0

I know WAR is not the end all be all stat, but this gives you a good indication that Eaton is way more of a "just a guy" player than you believe him to be. And Nardi is 100% correct on Eaton making MANY baserunning mistakes while wearing White Sox uniform.

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Last edited by Frank Coztansa on Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:26 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Eaton is a better version of Pierzynski and Sox fans LOVE him so I don’t see why Eaton gets a bad rap for being the same thing .
AJ was much a more productive offensive player relative to his position than Eaton is/was.



One guy plays one of the most important positions on the field. The other plays an outfield corner.

Joe, you need corner outfielders too. You're acting like he was the ball boy for this team.



I understand. But I'd like my corner outfielders to have more than 15 home run power, especially in this era where paraplegics hit 20 in their sleep.

I just want my team to win games. Eaton helps teams do that and has since he got to the majors. Health is the only knock on him.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:28 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
...and wins the World Series
Nats team > Sox team so not sure what your point is there. You and gd seem to overrate Eaton. He is more than 'just a guy', but he's never been an All Star- not even close- so not sure why you guys seem to over love him.

He is a career 19 WAR player.

For reference, other career WAR from "just a guy/not a star" type players
Alex Rios 27.4
A.J. Pierzynski 23.9
Jason Heyward 36.9
Lance Johnson 30.2
JD Drew 44.9
Ben Zobrist 45.2
Nick Markakis 33.0

I know WAR is not the end all be all stat, but this gives you a good indication that Eaton is way more of a "just a guy" player than you believe him to be. And Nardi is 100% correct on Eaton making MANY baserunning mistakes while wearing White Sox uniform.

If you think 19 WAR at age 30 is just a guy/average player then I don't even know how to respond.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:30 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
If you think 19 WAR at age 30 is just a guy/average player then I don't even know how to respond.

Similar Batters through 30

Randy Winn (965.9)
Doug Glanville (957.8)
Roy Weatherly (956.6)
Steve Henderson (955.2)
Floyd Robinson (950.5)
Dom DiMaggio (950.0)
Johnny Grubb (948.4)
David DeJesus (948.3)
Bake McBride (946.3)
Johnny Hopp (943.6)

Lot of average to slightly above average guys on that list.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:46 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
I just want my team to win games. Eaton helps teams do that and has since he got to the majors. Health is the only knock on him.


Well, it's tough to say who is responsible for the winning. I doubt the Nats are better with Adam Eaton than they were with Bryce Harper with whom they never won anything. You seem to be making a case for signing Robert Horry.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:48 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
[
I just want my team to win games. Eaton helps teams do that and has since he got to the majors. Health is the only knock on him.


Well, it's tough to say who is responsible for the winning. I doubt the Nats are better with Adam Eaton than they were with Bryce Harper with whom they never won anything. You seem to be making a case for signing Robert Horry.

If Horry can get on base at a .365 clip with great defense than yeah I'd make the case to sign him.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:11 pm 
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I'd take Eaton at $8.5MM over Harper at $35MM that's for damn sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I just want my team to win games. Eaton helps teams do that and has since he got to the majors. Health is the only knock on him.


Well, it's tough to say who is responsible for the winning. I doubt the Nats are better with Adam Eaton than they were with Bryce Harper with whom they never won anything. You seem to be making a case for signing Robert Horry.


Eaton is an average major league player. No more. If he had decent power and a better arm he'd be considerably better, especially since he plays what should be a power position for a team, right field.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:45 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I'd take Eaton at $8.5MM over Harper at $35MM that's for damn sure.


That depends on what the over-all cost of the team is that you put on the field. Putting seven other Eaton types in the field is not going to win you a championship. Teams require both grinders like Eaton and power guys like Harper. Its called balancing your team out. I'd say that Harper replacing Eaton in right field would make the Nats a better over-all team leaving the respective contracts out of the equation.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:24 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I just want my team to win games. Eaton helps teams do that and has since he got to the majors. Health is the only knock on him.


Well, it's tough to say who is responsible for the winning. I doubt the Nats are better with Adam Eaton than they were with Bryce Harper with whom they never won anything. You seem to be making a case for signing Robert Horry.


Eaton is an average major league player. No more. If he had decent power and a better arm he'd be considerably better, especially since he plays what should be a power position for a team, right field.

It's 6 to one and a half dozen to the other. He can hit, run, and catch. But his baseball instincts are bad. He's going to make poor throws, missed throws, be a moron on the bases and annoying in the clubhouse. So yeah, average. IF he had some Billy Baseball in him, he'd be Brett Gardner in his heyday.


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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Adam Eaton won the World Series, but no, the White Sox did not 'lose the trade'

Vinnie Duber
NBC Sports Chicago•Oct 31, 2019, 11:32 AM

Adam Eaton is a World Series champion. Just like Chris Sale before him.

Yes, the players the White Sox dealt away on consecutive days during the Winter Meetings in 2016 have won consecutive championships: Sale got the final outs for the Boston Red Sox last October, and Eaton played a sizable role - a .320/.433/.560 slash line with two homers, six RBIs and five runs scored in seven games - in winning the first World Series in Washington Nationals history.

White Sox fans likely won't view those facts as good signs for their favorite club, what with teams reaping the benefits of players the White Sox once employed while the South Siders themselves have lost a total of 284 games since making those trades three years ago.

But it's important to remember that teams don't care about beating the team they traded with. They care about beating their opponents on the field and winning championships. In that sense, yes, the Red Sox and Nationals have "won" the trades. But that doesn't mean the White Sox can't win them, too.

In fact, the states of those trades, from a White Sox perspective, are looking infinitely better than they did a year ago. Rick Hahn's front office hauled in seemingly terrific prospect packages in both those deals, acquiring Yoan Moncada and Michael Kopech (among others) for Sale and the pitching trio of Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning for Eaton.

In 2018, Moncada struck out 217 times, Giolito was statistically the worst pitcher in baseball, Kopech made four brief big league starts before having Tommy John surgery, Dunning was battling injuries en route to eventual Tommy John surgery and Lopez - was actually fine and probably the White Sox best big league starting pitcher.

One year later, Moncada has blossomed into the best all-around hitter on the team, Giolito is an All Star and the ace of the staff, Kopech is nearly through his recovery and set to make an impact in 2020, Dunning is similarly making his way through recovery mode and Lopez - was actually frustratingly inconsistent in 2019 to the point of his long-term future in the rotation being a frequent discussion topic.

Moncada, Giolito and Kopech are three of the reasons why the White Sox future looks so bright. And while Kopech has still yet to show what he can do at the major league level, Moncada and Giolito are fresh off sensational seasons that show the hype that accompanied their acquisitions way back when might have been warranted. Dunning and Lopez could similarly play roles for contending teams.

If we're judging the Red Sox and Nationals' championships as "wins" in these specific trades, then the White Sox are certainly able to grab their own "wins" should the players they got in those trades lead to titles. That was obviously the hope for all sides when the trades were made. The Red Sox and Nationals, being in contending modes, were in a much better position to grabs "wins" than the rebuilding White Sox, who were planning for years in the future.

It's also important to think about the alternatives: What would the White Sox have accomplished in keeping Sale and Eaton? The 2016 team they were dealt away from lost 84 games. It's not as if the White Sox were in a position to contend with those two guys on the roster. They might be in that position soon with the guys they got in those trades.

So congratulations to Eaton. But even with two championships in two years for the guys they traded away, it's still way too early to determine how those deals worked out for the White Sox.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:06 am 
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Anyone can be a journalist these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Sale=WS, Eaton=WS...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:10 am 
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Anyone can be a journalist these days.

That's fake news


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