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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:10 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
My issue is, if you are going to take the ball and go out to the mound (i.e. not tell the manager you are gassed), then you cannot use that as an excuse after the game. Speak up....

I agree it looks bad on Giolito as well, but whether the pitcher says anything or not the manager has to know. Most times drunk fans watching from their recliner can tell if a guy is gassed. The manager in the dugout has to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:12 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
The manager in the dugout has to know.
iS He SuPpOsEd To ReAd MiNdS??????????

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:12 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
My issue is, if you are going to take the ball and go out to the mound (i.e. not tell the manager you are gassed), then you cannot use that as an excuse after the game. Speak up....

Problem is that with many coaches holding onto the old mentality, to ask out leaves an almost permanent taint on young pitchers. See Michael Kopech.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:14 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
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I usually don't put too much stock into these reports good or bad, but for some reason I think there might be a little smoke here.

Quote:
The White Sox have dealt with injuries, to be sure, but a number of early-season losses are being chalked up to playing time, lineup, and pitching decisions that White Sox observers find to be reducing the total production of this talented group. That all is apparently already causing issues in the clubhouse. From Jeff Passan today (emphasis added):

One can forgive Tony La Russa for a difficult transition back into the dugout. He was away for 10 years. And yet at some point, that excuse gets tired, and with some of La Russa’s maneuvering, one can understand why the patience in some parts of the White Sox’s clubhouse is growing thin.

The latest came last week, when, trailing by three, with runners on first and second and one out in the eighth, La Russa allowed Billy Hamilton and Leury Garcia to hit, even though Robert was available on the bench. La Russa’s explanation after the game was that he was “looking for a single there.”

It wasn’t the only mistake he made that game. After an awful start in which La Russa let his best pitcher, Lucas Giolito, languish for seven runs in one-plus innings, Giolito had bounced back with a solid six innings. La Russa sent him back out for the seventh. Giolito wasn’t going to ask out of the game. That responsibility fell on La Russa, who after the game said he didn’t realize Giolito was gassed.

He’d made the same error three weeks earlier with reliever Matt Foster and admitted “that’s lousy managing.”
https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/ ... eout-rates



Was LaRussa supposed to read Giolito's mind? And unless Robert hits a home run (he has 1 this year) someone else is going to have to get a hit. Passan hated the hire, and this just feels like piling on.


Thats 100% what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:17 pm 
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This after his 1 inning stint when Boston pinballed him around. If anything thats on Katz. LaRussa doesnt really know him yet.

Giolito told the media that he was “out of gas” when he was struggling at the end. That is a problem. Ethan Katz and Tony La Russa are supposed to know the pitchers on the mound better than anyone. It could just be an honest mistake, but that needs to not happen again. La Russa seemed surprised to hear that during his press conference so you would think it will be handled.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:31 pm 
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Already been covered;
RFDC wrote:
I agree it looks bad on Giolito as well, but whether the pitcher says anything or not the manager has to know. The manager in the dugout has to know.


And lets be honest, that is just one of MANY questionable moves TLR has made thus far. Jake Lamb, a 30 year old with a career .238 avg, has stared half of the games since April 13. Even with the injuries the Sox have, there is no reason for a scrub like this to be playing half their games.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:37 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
denisdman wrote:
My issue is, if you are going to take the ball and go out to the mound (i.e. not tell the manager you are gassed), then you cannot use that as an excuse after the game. Speak up....

Problem is that with many coaches holding onto the old mentality, to ask out leaves an almost permanent taint on young pitchers. See Michael Kopech.


I wonder how throwing your manager under the bus after the games taints him.....

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:40 pm 
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Not sure if Kopech is the best example. He also got hurt and had some personal issues going on, and has come back like a beast so far this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:50 pm 
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One thing that irks me this year is hearing guys like Bruce Levine say that pitchers this year shouldn't be expected to pitch 200 innings because last year was shortened and their arms need to be built up. Fuck that...it should be the opposite -- they didn't have as much of a load last year, so they should have at least a normal workload this year.

Some of the short outings are metrics-based (god forbid someone has to face a lineup a third time) but I hate the pussification of starting pitchers these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:51 pm 
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TLR on Jake Lamb 5 years ago .

La Russa continued. “A left-hand hitter with power and a third baseman, plus defender, you say, ‘Wow, this a franchise kind of guy that you can build around”


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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:30 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Already been covered;
RFDC wrote:
I agree it looks bad on Giolito as well, but whether the pitcher says anything or not the manager has to know. The manager in the dugout has to know.


And lets be honest, that is just one of MANY questionable moves TLR has made thus far. Jake Lamb, a 30 year old with a career .238 avg, has stared half of the games since April 13. Even with the injuries the Sox have, there is no reason for a scrub like this to be playing half their games.


He's played in 9 of 29 games. Moncada was banged up. Eaton has been hurting. They are down two starters in the outfield, and they've played multiple doubleheaders. But yeah LaRussa is to blame for playing Lamb. And it's on LaRussa that Giolito couldn't get guys out on shitty Detroit then blamed it on being tired after the fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:35 pm 
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I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:17 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.

Why is he even on the team Frank ? Who signed him ?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:45 pm 
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Tony is on an island. No whispers from Dave.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:48 pm 
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He’s rolled out shit lineups all year, made baffling pitching decisions and generally has the appearance of a guy who’s not been on the bench in years. He also looks like a dope with the tiny face mask.

He’ll get hate from the fart sniffers like Bernstein and Passen because they want to be right about the hire being wrong. But he’s not done himself any favors.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:57 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Tony is on an island. No whispers from Dave.

This is the way.


By the way I feel bad for sox fans. They absolutely have an open championship window and a year might be getting pissed away by a weirdo manager.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:01 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Already been covered;
RFDC wrote:
I agree it looks bad on Giolito as well, but whether the pitcher says anything or not the manager has to know. The manager in the dugout has to know.


And lets be honest, that is just one of MANY questionable moves TLR has made thus far. Jake Lamb, a 30 year old with a career .238 avg, has stared half of the games since April 13. Even with the injuries the Sox have, there is no reason for a scrub like this to be playing half their games.


He's played in 9 of 29 games. Moncada was banged up. Eaton has been hurting. They are down two starters in the outfield, and they've played multiple doubleheaders. But yeah LaRussa is to blame for playing Lamb. And it's on LaRussa that Giolito couldn't get guys out on shitty Detroit then blamed it on being tired after the fact.

Do you think LaRussa has been a good manager so far?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:15 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.


You posted an article that seemed like bullshit. Passan dogged on LaRussa all offseason then he hears "anonymous sources" are whispering. The reason Giolito pitched more in the Detroit game is the bullpen has been spotty.

Lamb STARTING is because of doubleheaders and injuries. There are no great options with Eloy out. This has been a strange first month of a season in a post-COVID shortened season. If the bullpen does its job, and guys catch the ball then Passan wouldn't be able to carry out his hit piece on LaRussa.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:18 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Already been covered;
RFDC wrote:
I agree it looks bad on Giolito as well, but whether the pitcher says anything or not the manager has to know. The manager in the dugout has to know.


And lets be honest, that is just one of MANY questionable moves TLR has made thus far. Jake Lamb, a 30 year old with a career .238 avg, has stared half of the games since April 13. Even with the injuries the Sox have, there is no reason for a scrub like this to be playing half their games.


He's played in 9 of 29 games. Moncada was banged up. Eaton has been hurting. They are down two starters in the outfield, and they've played multiple doubleheaders. But yeah LaRussa is to blame for playing Lamb. And it's on LaRussa that Giolito couldn't get guys out on shitty Detroit then blamed it on being tired after the fact.

Do you think LaRussa has been a good manager so far?


It's been one month of a long season. I don't think he's been costing them games.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:20 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.


You posted an article that seemed like bullshit. Passan dogged on LaRussa all offseason then he hears "anonymous sources" are whispering. The reason Giolito pitched more in the Detroit game is the bullpen has been spotty.

Lamb STARTING is because of doubleheaders and injuries. There are no great options with Eloy out. This has been a strange first month of a season in a post-COVID shortened season. If the bullpen does its job, and guys catch the ball then Passan wouldn't be able to carry out his hit piece on LaRussa.

Patience with Vaughn. He didn't even play a game last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:32 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
He’s rolled out shit lineups all year, made baffling pitching decisions and generally has the appearance of a guy who’s not been on the bench in years. He also looks like a dope with the tiny face mask.

He’ll get hate from the fart sniffers like Bernstein and Passen because they want to be right about the hire being wrong. But he’s not done himself any favors.

Cmon . The guy has skins on the wall. He didn’t forget how to manage . Injuries are making this all look worse than it is . Their biggest problem so far ( keeping in mind they’re over .500 despite the injuries ) is that they can’t catch the ball. You can’t “ manage “ over shit defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:35 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.


You posted an article that seemed like bullshit. Passan dogged on LaRussa all offseason then he hears "anonymous sources" are whispering. The reason Giolito pitched more in the Detroit game is the bullpen has been spotty.

Lamb STARTING is because of doubleheaders and injuries. There are no great options with Eloy out. This has been a strange first month of a season in a post-COVID shortened season. If the bullpen does its job, and guys catch the ball then Passan wouldn't be able to carry out his hit piece on LaRussa.

Patience with Vaughn. He didn't even play a game last year.


I am not saying Vaughn is bad, but I don't question letting him sit versus a tough righty during his first month in the majors.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.


You posted an article that seemed like bullshit. Passan dogged on LaRussa all offseason then he hears "anonymous sources" are whispering. The reason Giolito pitched more in the Detroit game is the bullpen has been spotty.

Lamb STARTING is because of doubleheaders and injuries. There are no great options with Eloy out. This has been a strange first month of a season in a post-COVID shortened season. If the bullpen does its job, and guys catch the ball then Passan wouldn't be able to carry out his hit piece on LaRussa.

Patience with Vaughn. He didn't even play a game last year.


I am not saying Vaughn is bad, but I don't question letting him sit versus a tough righty during his first month in the majors.

Nor I. But there's no choice now so....patience. He'll figure it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:00 pm 
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bernstein has had a hard-on for LaRussa for years and he was very vocal about what a bad hire he was. So suddenly there's an article with the byline "WSCR Staff" citing anonymous sources regarding clubhouse grumbling about LaRussa's management. The short piece reads like a bernstein editorial. Now the piece gets regurgitated by other outlets like Fanduel and Audacy that do no reporting but cite the original as a "source". This is bullshit "journalism." But this is where our news is. The LaRussa story isn't important but the same techniques and methods are being used with serious subjects. It's dishonest and sick.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:51 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
bernstein has had a hard-on for LaRussa for years and he was very vocal about what a bad hire he was. So suddenly there's an article with the byline "WSCR Staff" citing anonymous sources regarding clubhouse grumbling about LaRussa's management. The short piece reads like a bernstein editorial. Now the piece gets regurgitated by other outlets like Fanduel and Audacy that do no reporting but cite the original as a "source". This is bullshit "journalism." But this is where our news is. The LaRussa story isn't important but the same techniques and methods are being used with serious subjects. It's dishonest and sick.


It's how things like Russian bounties get reported. One CIA source floats a story to say the Daily Beast. They report it. So the New York Times calls the same source to "confirm' the story. Then other outlets jump on to report it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:00 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
denisdman wrote:
My issue is, if you are going to take the ball and go out to the mound (i.e. not tell the manager you are gassed), then you cannot use that as an excuse after the game. Speak up....

Problem is that with many coaches holding onto the old mentality, to ask out leaves an almost permanent taint on young pitchers. See Michael Kopech.


I wonder how throwing your manager under the bus after the games taints him.....


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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:02 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.


and he was doing the same thing with Nick Williams until Hahn took his toy away

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:09 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
He’s rolled out shit lineups all year, made baffling pitching decisions and generally has the appearance of a guy who’s not been on the bench in years. He also looks like a dope with the tiny face mask.

He’ll get hate from the fart sniffers like Bernstein and Passen because they want to be right about the hire being wrong. But he’s not done himself any favors.


This is the correct take

Passan, et. al. are invested in the narrative that Tony was a bad hire. Their story the day after the world series will be that they won in spite of their manager.

However, he hasn't been great.

That doesn't mean he has been so remarkably bad above the strange things many managers do that it would draw the attention of a national writer.

Also, they are in first place with a 16-12 record despite injuries to stars (Eloy, Anderson, Robert) and heavily contributing backups (Engel). The young guys who he could never relate to are developing (Vaughn, Cease, Kopech and especially the "not mlb talent" Collins/Mercedes).

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:37 am 
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Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I said none of that, but here you are taking things and running with it like you always do.

There is no reason Lamb should have been STARTING playing in half of the games the Sox have played over the last 3 weeks. None.

There are other questionable moves LaRussa has made as well, but keep going back to shitting on Giolito and harping on that move even though we have all acknowledged how bad of a move it was and how stupid it was a Giolito to say what he said after that nonsense.


You posted an article that seemed like bullshit. Passan dogged on LaRussa all offseason then he hears "anonymous sources" are whispering. The reason Giolito pitched more in the Detroit game is the bullpen has been spotty.

Lamb STARTING is because of doubleheaders and injuries. There are no great options with Eloy out. This has been a strange first month of a season in a post-COVID shortened season. If the bullpen does its job, and guys catch the ball then Passan wouldn't be able to carry out his hit piece on LaRussa.

Patience with Vaughn. He didn't even play a game last year.


I am not saying Vaughn is bad, but I don't question letting him sit versus a tough righty during his first month in the majors.

Nor I. But there's no choice now so....patience. He'll figure it out.

What does Vaughn have to figure out? He's hitting .273 after never spending a day in AA or AAA. That's why him being held out for bums like Lamb is so infuriating. The only time Vaughn should sit is for a late game defensive replacement.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire La Russa
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:52 am 
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and I fully expect that his power will develop as he gets more MLB at bats

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