Please list the other 12-14 GM's who have a better record of success over the past 10 years. Please don't discredit World Series titles. I'm sure any team without on in the last 10 years would trade every single other win for one.


I didn't say they were equals. I'd say Theo is better. The gap is not that huge. You give Kenny Williams a massive payroll advantage over all the other teams but one and he'd have more playoff appearances too.



I was quite critical of them last year but fighting against the "You never say anything bad/good about XXX" is something that people don't ever accept so I'm not going to argue.

The Sox division hasn't been terrible. He's missed the playoffs twice with 88+ wins. One year, 90 wins got him a 3rd place finish!

Anyways, feel free to tell me the 12-14 gms better than him so he could be "a little above average" in regards to his success. I doubt you can name 8 especially if you are realistic as to just how important World Series titles are. I'm sure the GM in Tampa and Oakland would trade their success for the Sox success under Kenny. I'm sure he wouldn't.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Those are mutually exclusive?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't think Boston was going to be a last place team if Theo hadn't been there. Somebody else would have spent the money. The Sox may have been radically different without Kenny Williams. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Comparing the actual statistical results between two GM's in the same professional sports league is not an "apples to apples" comparison?

Ooookkkk.................

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

I think I've only really heard/seen one person say that the Sox aren't having (another) down year attendance-wise.

Eagerly awaiting his response........

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The white sox are not the Royals

Payroll Rank since last WS
2011 4th
2010 7th
2009 12th
2008 5th
2007 5th
2006 4th

Kinda digging ASFB adding the bold to his arsenal.......

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Where did I say Kenny was a great GM? I'm saying he's had great success. The World Series trumps another GM getting an extra division title or winning a few more regular season games.

Calling his results average is crazy. How many GM's do you think Kenny would trade results with?

He builds a team that does something no Chicago baseball team has done in roughly 100 years and he's average.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

When one has a $200 million payroll and the other is at $120 million? When one has three GMS working under him and the other doesn't? How is that apples to apples? Is Brian Cashman a better GM than Theo? He must be, right?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So Kenny doesn't have assistants?

It's actually about as text book of a case of "apples to apples" as there is, but I'll play along.
Which other GM's in basebal in the last 10 years are we not allowed to use when comparing GM's to Kenny? Or if it's quicker, just provide the list of GM's that we can use.

I think it's probably ok to use all 30 teams when comparing the results of each team.

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Obviously.

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Im not. Im comparing Kenny to Theo. Compared to Theo, Kenny is average.

As you are about to admit....

I didn't say they were equals. I'd say Theo is better. The gap is not that huge. You give Kenny Williams a massive payroll advantage over all the other teams but one and he'd have more playoff appearances too.[/quote]
Kenny has had high payrolls since 06. No results though.






84 wins per season. How would you describe that?

A little above average



Kenny is average compared to Theo.

Your question is flawed though. Its not as if at any given time there are Exactly 10 good GM's, 10 mediocre ones, and 10 bad ones

I cant say Ive gone thru each GM's record to find Kenny's spot. Maybe he's the 10th best.

I know Kenny's results, 84 wins per year and playoffs once every 5 years , is slightly above average.

Do you think averaging 84 wins is great?


He's not as good as Theo has been. You admitted it, we can move on.

I think all 30 have different situations and it's difficlut to compare their results. When Theo is fired without winning a World Series will you think he got dumber upon coming to Chicago? And no, Williams doesn't have assitants that ost more per season than afourt outfielder. Why are you being ridiculous? Is Brian Cashman a better GM than Theo?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

First of all, If you are saying he had great success, I think you're saying he's a great GM





No, calling a team that makes post season 20% of the time "Great Results" is crazy.

Or you have massively low expectations.




And here we get to the issue.

Sorry, Im not comparing him to only Cubs GM's. Im not giving Kenny credit for anything that happened before him or the fact that Chicago was bad at winning WS for a while.

Im comparing him to other baseball GM's

But if you're giving points for doing something not done in a while: Theo did something twice in 4 years that hadnt been done in 86 years

That's a major shift in your argument.

In fact, I don't think I've ever heard someone use the concept of saying someone is average when only comparing two things.

Just be honest and admit you think Kenny is an average GM who got lucky.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I want to fully address this bullshit, JORR

Trickybeck gave you a stat. He put a description along with it that when payrolls get above a certain number the numbers dont work as well.

You were arguing Hendry was better even though Hoyer's per dollar was better. So are you now switching to it DOES matter?


I know you are not dumb or ignorant. You know that what he was saying is true. Whether that renders the dollars spent stat useless or not, no one was using "wins per dollar spent" as Gospel the way you presented it.

Success is a measure of what you have done. For instance, Justin Bieber is a great success but I don't think he's a great singer.
Have you had 2005 permanently erased from your mind? It's almost like you think that a 20% post season percentage(which ignores the two years of 88 and 90 wins they didn't make it) is more important than winning a title.
Your use of average in regards to a comparison of 2 things is strange then.
Theo is good! Theo is great! What more do you want me to say? It's honestly like you are so in love with Theo that you are offended that someone else could be in the same conversation.

Theo is amazing. Kenny sucks. Happy now?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Brian Cashman has been an outstanding GM.

Theo has been a great GM.

Kenny's has been an above average GM.

Who knows where they'll be in 5 years.

No about this Sox pitching staff....

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Good christ.

Theo has had success. KW has had success. Both have had some failures as well.
Theo inherited a better team than KW did, imo. Sox made the playoffs in 2000, BoSox were 1out away from getting to the WS in '03

Who knows what the future holds for either.

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Hi Frank.

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Either it counts or it doesn't, Bryan. When it goes against Theo we can't just throw it out. It's like the "playoff crapshoot" stuff. It seems it's vaild for Beane but not for Hendry. You tell me what we should think and I'll stick to it so we aren't going back and forth. Does payroll count or not? Was Hendry wildly successful in buidling good regular season teams or not?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

If you want to talk about recent success, Kenny currently has built a first place team.

Will that continue? Only IMU knows what is going to happen this season and the next 5.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not being ridiculous at all.
If Theo doesn't produce results in his time here in Chicago, I would say that he was not as good of a GM as others that produce with other teams during that time. Which is what everyone is doing in this thread when they compare the actual results of the teams that various GM's are responsible for.

That's sounds crazy doesn't it?

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There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Right, I dont include winning 88 and not making the playoffs as "making the playoffs"

Also, 2005 is included in Kenny's 84 avg wins and 2 of ten seasons in the playoffs.





Your use of average in regards to a comparison of 2 things is strange then. [/quote]
Im not trying to argue, but you get what Im saying right?

I think at some points more than half the GM's are bad. So one could be in the top 10 and still not be great





Bullshit. Dont turn this around on me. YOU are the one who was insulted that I called Kenny above average. You are the one in love with your team's GM, not me.

I criticized Theo as recently as last week.




My stance is Theo has had a lot of recent success and I hope it translates. That's it.

Wait until school lets out. That ranking will skyrocket 1-2 places.

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