Pretty good, Spanky. It's just funny, these arguments are so well drawn that it's practically paint by numbers to the end.

Everything will be crystal clear come October. Until then it's just spitting into the wind.

^^^ Beardown beat me to it ^^^

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Fire Phil Emery

Guys, Irish Boy says we cannot debate baseball anymore until mid or late october.
So we have to pack up the section now.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This whole debate started because Elmhurst Steve and Darkside laughed when I said Kenny Williams is the best GM in town right now.

Given his track record, that cannot be denied as we stand today.

Not once have I said the Cubs aren't good. I'll bash them just as much as the next meatball, but outside of the 2005 Sox, this years Cubs are the best team this city has seen in probably 10 or 15 years. That 1994 Sox team was great, but cuz of the strike we'll never know. Then you're back to the '84 Cubs and '83 Sox. Before then, Wrigley and Comiskey were still relatively "new" ballparks the last time we had a team this good in Chicago.

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Yes it can. With clear concise arguments, supported by facts and figures.
It can most certainly be denied.
I know this because we did it.

Funny that Williams only competiton in this thread was Hendry though.
That's kind of funny if you think about it.
Angelo made it to the SB, had a couple division titles, but he's NOT EVEN CLOSE. funny.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

All right!
Who the hell is that impostor using Frank Coztanza's name?
Or is he behaving so well, that I am just having a hard time finding him totally repulsive and obnoxious anymore?

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Host of the weekly "We Fish ASA" podcast
Weekly columnist for the Northwest Herald
Bi-monthly columnist for Illinois Outdoor News magazine
Former host of The Outdoors Experience on WIND and The Great Outdoors on CLTV
http://www.wefishasa.com

Screw you, Frank!

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You know me like that.

OK. Now you are talking sense.

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You know me like that.

GM who has one a Championship > GM who has not won a Championship.

If this changes in Ocotber, so be it. Today, right now at 3:44pm 8/20/08, Kenny Willams is the best GM in Chicago.

End of discussion.

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End the fucking discussion already. Kenny has a ring and Hendry doesnt have one (yet).

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I think technically that would have made him the greatest GM in Chicago at 11:00pm October 26, 2005.

But, if I said that it might restart an argument and I would never do that. So, I'll keep it to myself.

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You know me like that.

On the topic of GM's why does the Media Hold Billy Beane as a Great GM-What has he won???

Kenny is the Best in chicago hands down.

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2009 CSFMB Fantasy Basketball Champion-
2009 CSFMB Pro Football Pick'em Champion-
2011 NAS Replacement League Football-

I didn't say you can't debate it. It just doesn't matter much. Better to wait until things settle themselves, IMO.

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Fire Phil Emery

Let's table this discussion and pick it up when a Hendry-run team wins the World Series.

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President of Blake Shetlon fan club

Billy Bean said it best. The GM is there for the 162. Playoffs are too much of a crap shoot. Anything can happen.

Billy Bean got the A's to 3 playoffs this decade with no pay roll. Twins GM got them to 4 this decade with no pay roll. They have a chance to make it 5 playoffs this year. Twins guy is good. I can't even think of the guy's name. Wow. That's how little recognition he gets.

Those 2 guys are 1 and 2 in my book. Bean and the Twins guy. Kenny is behind them. Hendry is up there. The Red Sox GM is up there.

I don't give the Yankee GM, Cashman, any credit. The 4 they won in the late 90s - that team was put together by Gene Michaels. Cashman has had a 200 million dollar pay roll for 8 years and hasn't won a World Series. They won't make it this year.

I agree with every word of that.

Major props to the Rays organization, not just for this year, but they still have a whole slew of blue-chip youngsters. They've done in a year what the Orioles and Blue Jays have been attempting for over a decade, and with no payroll to speak of.

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Fire Phil Emery

If the team fails, it's not the GM's fault, it's the players' fault. But if the team wins a championship, the GM is the best in the business?

You guys are giving way too much credit to GM's...the players make them look good, it's not the other way around.

Now I'll step out of the pond of urine that's collected in this pissing contest...

W_Z, who the hell gets the players that makes them look good?

Yeah, Quentin and Ramirez are playing well. That makes Kenny look good. But anybody in MLB could have got those 2 guys. Ramirez was signed for nothing. Somebody could have offered more in a trade for Quentin. Kenny got them.

The GM in Seattle has a +100 million dollar payroll and his team is gonna lose 100 games this year.

It's those things that make GMs good or bad. Stealing Quentins and Ramirezs.

The Yankee GM doesn't get credit for signing AROD. Umm...I could have said "Ya know this AROD is good".

He had an owner willing to sign him for 25 million a year.

was quentin in the discussion for MVP last year or did i miss something?

i'm not saying GM's shouldn't get any credit, but seriously you guys dedicate so much time anointing who the best GM in this town it's really tired and a thin argument.

what i am saying is that fans will blame the players in 06 and 07 for the Sox (and 04 and 05 for the Cubs), but give all the credit in th the world to the GM's for how they're performing now. can't have it both ways.

W_Z, you don't realize it, but you just made my point.

No. He wasn't an MVP last year. If he was the Sox don't get him. Kenny liked him, wanted him, and got him. Somebody could have offered more for him. He didn't go for much. Nobody offered more so the Sox got him.

Thanks for making my point. Kenny is a great GM. This is an example.

so if quentin didn't have a great year this year, would you still give credit for kenny for the signing?

It was low risk trade so it wouldn't have hurt. He didn't give up anything. So no, he wouldn't have been criticized. But he liked him enough to get him when 29 other GMs could have got him. Kenny has made some bad trades. All GMs do. But he's made more good moves than bad. Hence, he's a good GM.

You are right that a GM is only as good as the players make him. That's why I say there is too much credit thrown at them. Too much blame when things go bad, too many flowers when things go good. Their job is to put talent on the field.

After that it's up to the players.

Forget Evan Longoria, currently on the DL for the Tampa Bay Rays, whom the White Sox play this weekend at "The Cell". Your A.L. Rookie of the Year is unquestionably Alexei Ramirez, and the Rays will see why starting Friday. #10 has come a long way, both as a solid defensive second baseman & as I saw firsthand last Thursday afternoon vs. Kansas City, this guy has amazing power with the bat! I really enjoy watching Alexei play, and if the Sox are smart, keep Ramirez right where he is and forget about shifting him to shortstop! He's fine right where he is, Sox fans!

LF- Carlos vs Soriano.......CQ
Cf- Wash
RF- Dye vs Fukedome.......Dye
3b- Ramirez
ss- Cabrera vs Theriot.......toss up (Defense favors Cabrera)
2B- A. Ramirez
1b- Lee
C- AJ vs Soto........Soto but not by much

starters- Cubs bigtime because of Harden

Pen- Sox have one of best in league.

Coach- Ozzie vs Lou.......OZZIE! Sox have won four fewer games then Cubs against way tougher competition. How good can Lou be when he still puts he top run producer in the lead off spot. My sister even says that Theriot and his 300 plus average and his near 400 OBP should be leading off while Soriano shouldbe 4th or 5th.


Cubs are good and will be tough but as you can see these teams arent far apart.


Sox have done great with less. Cubs are where they ae suppose to be.

Kenny is best

LOL. this is very funny. Coaches ozzie. You had me until you said center field was a wash. Its not. Then your just gonna say SS because of Orlandos glove. Thats funny. Than the coach thing too. Oh man, I gotta not read this shit before I go to bed. I wont be able to stop laughing. Oh man thats good. And by the way, Soriano would have better numbers than Quentin if he played the whole year.

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I agree. You win center field. Soriano would also have 10 more errors if he played the whole year. What do you have to read before you go to bed?

Hey Chris, does your mom let your wife sleep with you?

Yeah as long as I wear protection. Um nevermind

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I agree with pretty much everything in the above post except regarding the money part. The payrolls for both teams have been comparable over the years and in the offseason the Sox also went after Fukodome, I believe the Sox offered more money than the Cubs. Kenny has money to play with.

As a Cub fan I would rank Kenny as the #1 GM in the city due to the WS trophy, even though I still think he is a arrogant pud.

So...since I started this thread...I'll sum it up with this...

In this Cubs fan opinion....Alexei Ramirez is the best ballplayer on the Sox & all I ever see him do is make one sweet play after another. It'll be interesting to see his career play out.

So...that should settle all this GM chatter. Right?

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.