The bullpen always seems to fall apart. The starting pitching looks good on paper but falls apart.
Look sale is going to be great regardless of who coaches him.

But honest question... has cooper ever made anyone better or improved someone's mechanics or overall made someone who was decent or bad into great?

14 years with the Sox and I can't think of anyone who he really made into a better pitcher. Now that's not entirely fair because the majority of my attention is focused on the Cubs so I'm asking the real Sox fans.

You realize he's pretty much dictating the bullpen and pitching changes... Robin doesn't know what to do... coop is calling those shots. It seems over the last three weeks the bullpen and the management of it have been a big part of the problem.

So is coop any good... like really?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

The last guy he helped was Thornton. I agree. Fuck Coop. Whenever the pitchers are good it's supposed to be because of Cooper. When they suck, it's Ventura's fault. Fire both their asses.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

YYESSSS

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No

He sure as hell didn't do anything for Samardzija.

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What did he do for Thornton? The guy was 29 years old, a former 1st round pick and always threw hard. He made him into a good setup man?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Thornton is the guy who comes to mind and Quintana was a nobody who worked out here. I suppose you can give him credit for helping the young pitchers they have had of late (Sale, Rodon), but talent is going to win out there ultimately. Your point is valid though - even if he is an elite (or good) pitching coach, he has way too much influence on the manager.

This isn't related specifically to Cooper, but it's always funny to hear the experts on the Score (or elsewhere) say that a particular coach is amongst the best in the league without any context - most of these "experts" making these claims couldn't name 5 pitching coaches outside of Chicago yet know that Cooper is one of the best.

He got him to throw strikes. Thornton was an elite left-handed reliever for at least a couple seasons. The difference between before and after Thornton is similar to Arrieta. It's just not as noticeable because he only pitched an inning at a time. Maybe Coop gave him steroids.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It's time for Ricky!!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

One year wonder 2003 free agent Esteban Loaiza who was flipped in 2004 for Jose Contreras.

He won 21 games in 2003 and 9 more in 2004 before the trade..in his 14 year career he won 126 so in his 13 1/2 nonCoop years he won only 96 moreor about 7 per season.

He is the guy who made Coop the BEST pitching coach in baseball.

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Coop taught him a cutter. Ever since then the Sox think they can just pick up any heretofore worthless bum, have Coop teach him a cutter, and he'll suddenly be good.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The extent to which the Sox have fucked up this bullpen situation can not be understated. It's a failure on all levels and they should all be fired for it.

Would like to hear your assessment on the fuckup because from Robertson, to Albers, to Putnam, to Jones, to Duke...heard nothing but amazing things. Kenny spoke in ST about being the best in baseball?

And for a team that mocks others for signing long term big money relief guys, well, sure seems they are stuck in the barrel they ridicule other teams for with Robertson?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Dude I'm telling you... you DON'T want Renteria running this club. Coop can fall on the grenade here. He's the one calling the shots anyhow.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

What did you see from Renteria that makes you think he would be so much worse than Robin?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

The blank stare.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Exactly. You can't be a good manager unless you're mugging for the camera with a macaw on your shoulder.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I've never seen Maddon being anything other than super intense in the dugout during the game.
He's a goof off the field but when play ball is called that dude is serious as a heart attack and knows what the fuck he's doing.
You can mock him for his off game antics. That's pretty much all you got. I don't think you can mock his in game talents.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

oh... well...

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I know JORR doesnt think the manager matters and 95% of the time he is right, the problem comes when you dont know when that 5% of the time comes and you better be ready for it.

I can appreciate the fact Maddon is ALWAYS in the game, ALWAYS standing on the top step watching eveything that is going on and he does think 3 steps ahead of the game, which is what good managers do. That doesnt mean they always make the right choice, but the job is to stay ahead of everyone else.

Robin is seen many times sitting down, at the end of the bench too.

I said it before the season started and early in the season when they were doing good. It's just not Robins team. He was tuned out early and whatever happens has very little to do with him.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I don't really think the location of a manager during the game has anything to do with whether they are in the game or not.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Someone missed the Robertson meltdown happening. It sure as hell wasn't the fans or the broadcasters. You put this guy in to get some work, why would you have left him in as long as they did?
That's just irresponsible.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I don't know man. Body language says a lot. If you're interviewing someone who is sitting back reclining in their chair vs. Someone sitting straight up and not leaning back who seems more attentive and interested to you? I mean the location of the candidate doesn't have anything to do with whether they can hear you or not.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Yeah body language matters.

But whether someone is sitting at the end of the bench or standing at the top of the steps does not really matter. Guys are wired different.

I do not think that Robin is a good manager at all, but it has nothing IMO to do with where he sits during a game. I think he is overmatched, and I am not really sure he has ever really wanted to be a good manager.

Maddon seems like a guy that loves what he is doing and wants to be there and get better with every game.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I'd fire Renteria too. As far as I'm concerned it's war path mode, anyone who participated in the groupthink that led to Matt Albers being on this team and Nate Jones being relied on in high leverage situations needs to be gone. That includes those that didn't call out the problem in ST but should have...Rick Renteria included.

I'd trade Robertson (for anything, he can still be dealt) and DFA/send down the rest if I were the Sox. Just a complete bloodbath from the top down... this team has great starters, an effective lineup (even w Abreu in his megaslump) but can't hold any sort of lead once the pen comes in. I've never seen a team where a 6 run lead feels like being behind, but this group seems to have accomplished it.

What are the things he does during a game that are different from every other guy?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Seriously?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Wears a winter hat.

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