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So where are all the people who hated the plan?
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Author:  denisdman [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Ok guys. You should love this know-it-all, smug article from one of the front runners for a Score 670 job. And for those of you that still think he's ok, you will get to hear this garbage every day. Enjoy.

Rozner: Reinsdorf will be key to White Sox rebuild

"So where are all the people who hated the plan?

Maybe they've forgotten all the pontificating, all the times they trashed Theo Epstein and Tom Ricketts, how upset they were when the Cubs traded the likes of Scott Feldman, Ryan Dempster and Jeff Samardzija.


But now, they say, Epstein is a genius who should run for emperor and cure the world's ills.

Interesting.

Oddly, this amnesia can only benefit the White Sox, who finally -- after years of middling their approach -- have gotten permission from Jerry Reinsdorf to start over.

And GM Rick Hahn is off to a very good start.

The trades of Chris Sale and Adam Eaton have brought a stark upgrade to the farm system, their top four prospects not even a part of the organization one week ago.

The top 10 is star-studded -- and this is just the beginning.

Hahn is likely to move Jose Quintana, Todd Frazier, David Robertson and Jose Abreu sometime between now and July 31, depending on the desperation of the market.

Keep dealing and keep collecting prospects and get to somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 20, at which point you hope one becomes great, two or three become really good players and maybe a few more contribute at the big league level.

You lose 100 games a couple times, you draft high and score big at the top. You sign a few midlevel free agents and you move them in late July for young players.

Do it enough times and you can find yourself with a sustainable minor league system that produces players who can help you compete for a postseason spot year after year, and players who can help you get what you need through trade.

Not nearly as simple as these words suggest, but not nearly as complicated as the Epstein detractors made it out to be.

What is unsustainable is spending to fix your mistakes year after year -- unless you have an unlimited budget -- something Epstein explained at his very first news conference, though much of it fell on deaf ears.

If you think in terms of a five-year project, the Sox are essentially finishing Day 1.

It's just amazing that the White Sox are in charge of the market and controlled the winter meetings from the bottom rung on the ladder.

It's about time.

As was the case with the Cubs, this will be a long and painful process, filled with bad players at the major league level, place-holding for the talent of the future.

The Sox won't rush anyone here just to sell some tickets and they won't give up halfway through and go for it before it's appropriate.

At least, that's the hope -- and this is where Reinsdorf comes in.

It was Ricketts' patience that made the Cubs' World Series possible. He didn't fall apart when things were at their worst, and he didn't break down when the haters crushed Epstein for trading Samardzija and Jason Hammel for Addison Russell.

"Theo laughs about the days when I was too patient, and thinks I should have been yelling at him more," Ricketts said before the World Series. "Once you see the plan, and once you understand what you have to do to build the organization, you know it takes time and you know if you take a shortcut, it'll be a dead end.

"And you know if you rush it, you'll screw it up."

It won't be fun, it won't be easy and it won't lack for ugly days, and there are no promises it will work, though the last 10 years are proof enough that the Sox had to try something different.

So it will be up to Reinsdorf to hold it all together by allowing Hahn to do his job and giving young players a chance to develop at their own rate.

If he panics or moves too early, before the time is right to strike, the Sox will be right back where they were, wondering where it all went wrong.

So Reinsdorf deserves the credit for being willing to start over.

But his patience -- or lack thereof -- may yet determine whether the White Sox ever get this program off the ground.

brozner@dailyherald.com

• Hear Barry Rozner on WSCR 670-AM and follow him @BarryRozner on Twitter."
Author:  Nas [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
I didn't like the plan either but now I love plans.
Author:  312player [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
I'm aware of not a single person who didn't want Dumpster and the Guppy gone, Rozner is full of shit..

The people who didn't like the tanking didn't even want those two scrubs on the team.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
This plan should not take 5 years.
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
When it doesn't work, will he be taking calls with Bernstein from people bragging about hating the plan?

No cause he's a useless pussy.
Author:  SomeGuy [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Terry's Peeps wrote:
When it doesn't work, will he be taking calls with Bernstein from people bragging about hating the plan?

No cause he's a useless pussy.


Can't hate The Plan, friend, it's always a "Work in Progress." You just have to lose for a certain number seasons and a certain number of games and *POOF* World Series.
Author:  SomeGuy [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
This plan should not take 5 years.


Uh oh, looks like was have ourselves a Communist in our midst!

Image
Author:  leashyourkids [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Great article by a great mind. Hope he gets the job.
Author:  SomeGuy [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
leashyourkids wrote:
Great article by a great mind. Hope he gets the job.


You're really something else, leash, you know that?
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
leashyourkids wrote:
Great article by a great mind. Hope he gets the job.


MCGOWAN!
Author:  leashyourkids [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Terry's Peeps wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Great article by a great mind. Hope he gets the job.


MCGOWAN!


:lol: Gets me every time, even in print!
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Nas wrote:
I didn't like the plan either but now I love plans.


Yes, having a real plan is a step in the right direction. However, it will be some time before we know if they made deals for the RIGHT prospects or not. This is something Hahn and Williams have not attempted before, so it's tough to have a lot of confidence in their ability to pull this off quickly, if at all.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
They are already way ahead of the Cubs pace of The Plan.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
They are already way ahead of the Cubs pace of The Plan.


The Sox had a couple of pieces (Sale, Quintana, Eaton and Abreau in particular) who probably had far greater value than the guys (Dempster, Feldman, Soriano) the Cubs had to trade when Theo took over. But whether the guys they traded for are really good, or failed prospects is unknown at this point. To say they are ahead in terms of tearing the team down more quickly might be fair to say. To say they will be able to build a contender as quickly as the Cubs did is probably silly. The Cubs hit on a very high percentage of their high draft choices as well as the players they received in trade and signed as free agents. To expect any team to hit at an equal or greater rate is probably not realistic. Especially Hahn and Williams.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
The Sox haven't even played a game in their new era and they're already better than the Cubs. That's our Frank!
Author:  Rod [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The Cubs hit on a very high percentage of their high draft choices


Kris Bryant. One guy.
Author:  conns7901 [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
The Cubs hit on a very high percentage of their high draft choices


Kris Bryant. One guy.


Well 3 are on the big league roster and all of them had a hand in winning game 7.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Curious Hair wrote:
The Sox haven't even played a game in their new era and they're already better than the Cubs. That's our Frank!
That is not at all what I said.
Author:  Furious Styles [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
2016
Author:  Hatchetman [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
It's already taken five years just to get started!
Author:  Spaulding [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
This plan should not take 5 years.


Why not? How long should it take? Weren't they competitive the last few?
Author:  Gloopan Kuratz [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
The guys they picked up are not as good as the guys they got rid of.
Author:  badrogue17 [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Spaulding wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
This plan should not take 5 years.


Why not? How long should it take? Weren't they competitive the last few?

So are you saying they'll be World Series champs before 5 years ?
Author:  Kirkwood [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
There's a huge difference between trading guys like Ryan Dempster, Scott Feldman, Paul Maholm, Jeff Samardzija versus Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, Jose Quintana.

This rebuild is going to take longer than the Cubs.
Author:  pittmike [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Kirkwood wrote:
There's a huge difference between trading guys like Ryan Dempster, Scott Feldman, Paul Maholm, Jeff Samardzija versus Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, Jose Quintana.

This rebuild is going to take longer than the Cubs.


So, now we gonna do who's rebuild is longer playa? :lol:
Author:  America [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
The White Sox aren't rebuilding through the draft the way the Cubs did. We'll know what Giolito, Moncada and Lopez are about by mid season 2018 and the team should start adding in the 18-19 offseason to compete in 2019 when Kopech and Collins are debuting.

It will not take long to see if this works.
Author:  Kirkwood [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
pittmike wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
There's a huge difference between trading guys like Ryan Dempster, Scott Feldman, Paul Maholm, Jeff Samardzija versus Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, Jose Quintana.

This rebuild is going to take longer than the Cubs.


So, now we gonna do who's rebuild is longer playa? :lol:

No. The White Sox won't take shortcuts like the Cubs and sign premium free agents (Lester/Zobrist/Heyward).

Last year was a great example where Cespedes/Desmond/Fowler were desperate for deals and the Sox had no use for them?
Author:  America [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
:lol: the White Sox are many thing but bashful in the offseason is not one of them.
Author:  Kirkwood [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
America wrote:
:lol: the White Sox are many thing but bashful in the offseason is not one of them.

There's a difference between bringing in a bunch of mid-tier guys versus a stud.

The free agents signed has been "sensible" (Cabrera/Robertson) or "cheap" (LaRoche/Jackson) but then kinda just sucking.

It's like they're striking to replicate the Pierzynski/Dye/Hermanson mid-tier gold strike.
Author:  WaitingforRuffcorn [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So where are all the people who hated the plan?
Kirkwood wrote:
No. The White Sox won't take shortcuts like the Cubs and sign premium free agents (Lester/Zobrist/Heyward).

Last year was a great example where Cespedes/Desmond/Fowler were desperate for deals and the Sox had no use for them?


Careful on the Heyward as a premium free agent. Cespedes wanted to play in New York. Desmond was coming off a terrible year. Fowler by the numbers was similar to Austin Jackson, except it meant losing a draft pick.

Sox went middle road. Trying to rebuild the farm system while trying to win with bargains. If they have a good young team and need another piece Reinsdorf is willing to spend.
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