America wrote:
rebuild OVER
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| OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=108787 |
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| Author: | America [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
except Kevin Maitan is going to be declared a free agent. Do whatever it takes. |
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| Author: | America [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
badrogue17 wrote: So what's the verdict on this guy Sox nation? Part of the future ? Opening day DH Sox 2018 parenthesis denote imminent arrival from minors by midseason, but not on OD roster dh- delmonico c- narvaez/smith (collins) 1b- abreu 2b- yoan ss- anderson 3b- empty rf- avisail cf- engel lf- empty (eloy jimenez) giolito/kopech/rey lopez/shields/fulmer the bullpen is actually kinda ready, but they need a real closer. |
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| Author: | America [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
signing Moustakas is a priority for me too. no more than 4 years deal. Sox need a little more veteran presence, a lot more power (preferably LHH) and a third baseman. The pipe for 3b is pretty bare until you get down to Burger, who is at the earliest a year and a half away. |
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| Author: | Cashman [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
America wrote: signing Moustakas is a priority for me too. no more than 4 years deal. Sox need a little more veteran presence, a lot more power (preferably LHH) and a third baseman. The pipe for 3b is pretty bare until you get down to Burger, who is at the earliest a year and a half away. I am not sure he is a 3B. |
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| Author: | America [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Burger? He's fat but I think he's a pretty decent defender at 3rd. If his bat is ready they'll find a spot for it. I am not worried about blocking anyone. |
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| Author: | Cashman [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
America wrote: Burger? He's fat but I think he's a pretty decent defender at 3rd. If his bat is ready they'll find a spot for it. I am not worried about blocking anyone. Yes, a little chubbsters. I think he will be a DH. |
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| Author: | America [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
the one I'm worried about defensively is Collins. He improved, no doubt about it, but to what extent I'm not sure we really know. He still had some bad streaks. And even an improved Collins (from when he was drafted) could still be woeful behind the plate. The good news is Narvaez and Smith were actually pretty OK this year. I really like Narvaez in particular, just as a guy who contributes offensively by not being an out 80% of the time. |
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| Author: | Pal [ Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
America wrote: the one I'm worried about defensively is Collins. He improved, no doubt about it, but to what extent I'm not sure we really know. He still had some bad streaks. And even an improved Collins (from when he was drafted) could still be woeful behind the plate. The good news is Narvaez and Smith were actually pretty OK this year. I really like Narvaez in particular, just as a guy who contributes offensively by not being an out 80% of the time. Smith/Narvaez were quietly a nice part of the team this year. No way the Sox are going after Mouse. |
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| Author: | Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
It is highly unlikely the Sox will spend big money on any multi-year deals for at least another year. Nor should they. They will not be very good in 2018, but that should be understood by more intelligent fans. |
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| Author: | Kirkwood [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Moustakas seems like a guy who would magically suck huge ass once he signs with the Sox. |
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| Author: | pittmike [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Kirkwood wrote: Moustakas seems like a guy who would magically suck huge ass once he signs with the Sox. It would be our luck to sign him then. |
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| Author: | America [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Kirkwood wrote: Moustakas seems like a guy who would magically suck huge ass once he signs with the Sox. Even if he does its OK. They can afford to eat the money. Nobody the Sox care about hits arbitrartion in the next four years, so they can either weather the storm or dump his salary in a trade if he sucks. If he wound up being LHH Todd Frazier I would be 100% OK with it. |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
America wrote: rebuild OVER
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Moose would be a very nice addition but I could also see them holding off a year and making a run at Manny Machado. Either one would look real nice in the middle of the lineup. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Keyser Soze wrote: Moose would be a very nice addition but I could also see them holding off a year and making a run at Manny Machado. .
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
pittmike wrote: Kirkwood wrote: Moustakas seems like a guy who would magically suck huge ass once he signs with the Sox. It would be our luck to sign him then. Let Davidson play 3rd in 2018. Sign Manny Machado and go for broke in 2019. |
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| Author: | Elmhurst Steve [ Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Frank Coztansa wrote: pittmike wrote: Kirkwood wrote: Moustakas seems like a guy who would magically suck huge ass once he signs with the Sox. It would be our luck to sign him then. Let Davidson play 3rd in 2018. Sign Manny Machado and go for broke in 2019. That makes a lot more sense. |
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| Author: | MartyD47 [ Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
My hope for post all-star break 2019. This is about a $55M payroll, plenty of money to fill in the gaps. (Age in parenthesis.) 3B Sanchez (27) 2B Moncada (24) RF Stanton (29) LF Jimenez (22) 1B Abreu (32) DH Delmonico (26) CF Robert (22) C Collins (24) SS Anderson (26) SP Rodon (26) SP Kopech (23) SP Giolito (25) SP Hansen (24) RP Lopez(25) RP Burdi(24) RP Cease (23) |
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| Author: | denisdman [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
I didn't want to create a new thread. From today's WSJ: MLB: The Rise of Baseball's Superteams --- A World Series matchup between the Dodgers and Astros highlights the huge gap between baseball's top and bottom teams The Wall Street Journal Jared Diamond , Brian Costa By Jared Diamond and Brian Costa 24 October 2017, 1215 words, English, Devotees of baseball's data revolution describe the playoffs as a crapshoot, an unpredictable tournament where chaos reigns and the most deserving participant rarely emerges victorious. But this year's World Series between the Los Angeles Dodgers and Houston Astros introduces a new paradigm sweeping the sport. Instead of the vast parity that defined the last decade, there exists a Grand Canyon-sized gap between the top and bottom of the standings. A few teams accumulated so much talent that they simply overpowered the field, which is weakened by a phenomenon in which many executives view mediocrity as the ultimate failure -- and are willing to suffer ineptitude for a while to achieve greatness. It resulted in a regular season in which three teams -- the Dodgers, Astros and Cleveland Indians -- finished with more than 100 wins for the fourth time in major-league history. Starting Tuesday night at Dodger Stadium, two such clubs will square off with a championship at stake for the first time since 1970. Welcome to the Age of the Superteam. "You have front offices thinking more strategically about, 'Which side of the spectrum are we on?'" Dodgers general manager Farhan Zaidi said. "Because I'm actively trying to avoid getting stuck in the middle." This push to the extremes originated in basketball and football, before seeping into baseball more recently. On paper, it makes sense: Good teams vie for titles and reap the benefits of qualifying for the postseason. Bad ones earn coveted top draft picks, the easiest way to add a direction-altering player without giving anything up in return -- a must for smaller franchises that lack vast financial resources. Teams in the middle often stay in neutral, spinning their wheels without going anywhere. To escape that fate, teams developed a strategy known, somewhat controversially, as "tanking" -- a rebuilding technique that involves enduring a stretch of futility in order to acquire the pieces necessary to climb back to prominence. With commitment and patience, the approach undoubtedly can work. Theo Epstein employed it with the Chicago Cubs, the reigning champs. Under Jeff Luhnow, Houston's ultra-statistically minded GM, the Astros embarked on an unprecedented teardown, averaging 103 losses in his first three years at the helm. This season, they went 101-61, brimming with young stars like Carlos Correa, George Springer and Alex Bregman. Luhnow faced plenty of skepticism for using such an unorthodox method. Now, with copycats sprouting up, nobody questions the Astros anymore. "We were just bluntly honest with people," Astros president Reid Ryan said. Those in the industry attribute the popularity of Houston's model to changes to the MLB draft that coincided with Luhnow's hiring for the 2012 season. Before that point, teams could sign draftees for as much money as they wanted, which in some cases disincentivized high picks. Cash-strapped teams would sometimes refrain from selecting the best available player out of fear that his contract demands would strain their economic limits. To combat that problem, the league implemented limits on how much teams could spend in draft bonuses, with teams holding more desirable picks receiving a larger pool. Suddenly, putting up the worst record in the majors came with an even better prize, and smart teams took advantage. As time passes, the tactic seems less crazy, which was not the case a decade ago. Former Baltimore Orioles executive Jim Duquette recalled that in 2007, saddled with a hopeless team, he wanted to trade shortstop Miguel Tejada. The Los Angeles Angels offered Ervin Santana and Erick Aybar, a package Duquette thought would help the Orioles in the future. He says his boss, Peter Angelos, quickly rejected the idea. "My owner wasn't willing to take that beating and be really bad," said Duquette, now an analyst for SNY. "He wanted to stay somewhat competitive." More owners appear willing to go that route now. For the first time since 1997, only five American League teams finished with a winning record, the five that made the playoffs. Four teams finished with at least 95 losses -- the same number as 2015 and 2016 combined. With a growing number of teams choosing to struggle, it creates an opportunity for win-now teams to load up in ways never before possible. It sparked an arms race among a few teams to suck up as many assets as they possibly could, not only to improve their few weak spots, but to bolster areas of strength. Consider the Dodgers, who at 104-58 compiled the best record in the major leagues since 2004. They mixed baseball's largest payroll with smart leadership to construct a squad with a stunning amount of depth, replete with quality backups at every position, at least some of whom would start elsewhere. When they lost All-Star shortstop Corey Seager to a back injury for the National League Championship Series, they replaced him with Charlie Culberson, who went 5-for-11 at the plate. Though the Dodgers already boasted MLB's best rotation heading into the end of July, they still targeted arguably the best starting pitcher on the market, trading for right-hander Yu Darvish. After the Dodgers clinched their first pennant since 1988 last week, closer Kenley Jansen praised Zaidi and president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman, saying they "put a ridiculous team together." Darvish turned a great team into an even greater one. The Astros responded. A month after the Darvish deal, Houston dealt for ace right-hander Justin Verlander, who has gone 4-0 with a 1.46 ERA in the playoffs. He cemented the Astros' status as a Superteam. "When we came into spring training, we thought we had a great team, but at the All-Star break, some teams started loading up. The Dodgers were one of those teams," Astros pitcher Lance McCullers Jr. said. "We were really excited to get [Verlander], because we felt like that was our moment to get loaded up." The stratification is producing a strange new reality -- the duty to lose. Vince Gennaro, the associate dean at NYU's Tisch Institute for Sports Management, Media, and Business, said that in this environment, middling teams with trade chips "have an obligation to their fans to deal those players for prospects to make their team less competitive in the near future so they can return to contention." Others question how long it will remain effective. If too many teams try to tank at once, not all of them can lose enough to get the draft spot they seek. This season, for instance, the San Diego Padres looked like textbook tankers, and they didn't even finish in last place in their division. Zaidi pointed out that "there are equilibrium effects to a bunch of people changing their strategy." The Dodgers and Astros, meanwhile, will exit their showdown with a mission to outsmart their opponents again when the time comes to retool. "How do you stay at the top once you're successful?" Luhnow said. "That's the Holy Grail we're trying to figure out." |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Frank Coztansa wrote: pittmike wrote: Kirkwood wrote: Moustakas seems like a guy who would magically suck huge ass once he signs with the Sox. It would be our luck to sign him then. Let Davidson play 3rd in 2018. Sign Manny Machado and go for broke in 2019. Machado is going to get HUGE money. Have the White Sox signed anyone like that since Albert Belle? I honestly dont know if I'm forgetting one. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
MartyD47 wrote: My hope for post all-star break 2019. This is about a $55M payroll, plenty of money to fill in the gaps. (Age in parenthesis.) 3B Sanchez (27) 2B Moncada (24) RF Stanton (29) LF Jimenez (22) 1B Abreu (32) DH Delmonico (26) CF Robert (22) C Collins (24) SS Anderson (26) SP Rodon (26) SP Kopech (23) SP Giolito (25) SP Hansen (24) RP Lopez(25) RP Burdi(24) RP Cease (23) Who was traded for Stanton in this scenario? |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
rogers park bryan wrote: MartyD47 wrote: My hope for post all-star break 2019. This is about a $55M payroll, plenty of money to fill in the gaps. (Age in parenthesis.) 3B Sanchez (27) 2B Moncada (24) RF Stanton (29) LF Jimenez (22) 1B Abreu (32) DH Delmonico (26) CF Robert (22) C Collins (24) SS Anderson (26) SP Rodon (26) SP Kopech (23) SP Giolito (25) SP Hansen (24) RP Lopez(25) RP Burdi(24) RP Cease (23) Who was traded for Stanton in this scenario? Pelfrey and Leury Garcia. It was a great move by Hahn. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
rogers park bryan wrote: Who was traded for Stanton in this scenario? Will Fuller.
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| Author: | MartyD47 [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
rogers park bryan wrote: MartyD47 wrote: My hope for post all-star break 2019. This is about a $55M payroll, plenty of money to fill in the gaps. (Age in parenthesis.) 3B Sanchez (27) 2B Moncada (24) RF Stanton (29) LF Jimenez (22) 1B Abreu (32) DH Delmonico (26) CF Robert (22) C Collins (24) SS Anderson (26) SP Rodon (26) SP Kopech (23) SP Giolito (25) SP Hansen (24) RP Lopez(25) RP Burdi(24) RP Cease (23) Who was traded for Stanton in this scenario? Can't get a grasp on his trade value with that contract, but I don't think a team gets him without taking on the whole thing (without giving a bad one in return.) That team above has a payroll of ~$65M with a projected max of ~$140M. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
I think Machado, Harper and Bryant all sign for significantly more dough than Stanton. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
312player wrote: I think Machado, Harper and Bryant all sign for significantly more dough than Stanton. The Sox will offer Bryant 500 million. |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
The White Sox acquired RHP Thyago Vieira from the Mariners for international signing bonus pool money. Seattle adding pool money to make a run at Otani. Vieira has a big arm but he’s just a thrower. |
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| Author: | 312player [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: 312player wrote: I think Machado, Harper and Bryant all sign for significantly more dough than Stanton. The Sox will offer Bryant 500 million. Please confine your bad posts to the Dicaro thread. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Keyser Soze wrote: The White Sox acquired RHP Thyago Vieira from the Mariners for international signing bonus pool money. Seattle adding pool money to make a run at Otani. Vieira has a big arm but he’s just a thrower. Sounds like a shit move. |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: OFFSEASON--rebuild OVER--winning time NOW |
Ben: Thoughts on Vieira going to the Sox? Keith Law: Seen him 3x. 98-102 with well below average command and no average second pitch. Have seen a CB (awful) and slider (below average). Big arm strength guy. Fine pickup for international money, but high chance he never produces any value in the majors given the command issues. |
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