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Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability
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Author:  Pres-Elect FukNuggitt [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Is this guy redeemable defensively? He frames well and has a good arm, but the numerous mistakes he made last night were really stark.

The stuff I saw last night reminds me of a few little leaguers I have coached. Kids who just had a mental block which prevented them from relaxing and focusing when a ball is in play.

Is this something that can be fixed with repetition, or is this going to plague him for his whole career until he is forced to become a full-time DH?

Author:  good dolphin [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

his style has given him a 10 year career and $100+ million in the bank, so what are you going to say that persuades him it is incorrect?

He's bad at blocking balls. We knew that. It's not changing. It will probably be more acceptable when every game means less in a 162 season. Just as it did with the Dodgers though, it will come back to haunt at a bad time.

He did look amateurish with his reaching for pitches instead of trying to block.

Author:  Nardi [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Our 2nd best catcher is our main catcher. I accept it. I ask that McCann catches Giolito and Dunning and I'm happy.

Author:  Rod [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Grandal is a better offensive player than McCann by far. Having Grandal allows the Sox to use McCann the exact right amount so he shows better offensively than he actually is. You saw how he fell apart at the end last season. It's good to have them both. If used correctly one can cover the deficiencies of the other.

Author:  The Hawk [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Grandal is a better offensive player than McCann by far. Having Grandal allows the Sox to use McCann the exact right amount so he shows better offensively than he actually is. You saw how he fell apart at the end last season. It's good to have them both. If used correctly one can cover the deficiencies of the other.


ITs definitely a plus having both of them on this team. Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return. He deserves a nice contract after his last two seasons of production.

Author:  Nardi [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Grandal is a better offensive player than McCann by far. Having Grandal allows the Sox to use McCann the exact right amount so he shows better offensively than he actually is. You saw how he fell apart at the end last season. It's good to have them both. If used correctly one can cover the deficiencies of the other.

He fell apart in July and pulled it back together again.

I love Grandal offensively. He's critical to the lineup with his OBP. What I'm concerned with is young pitching. In a perfect world, I'd ween Giolito off McCann, have McCann catch the the other 3 youngsters, DH Grandal those 3 days and EE the other 2.

Author:  WaitingforRuffcorn [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Yesterday it looked like he was trying to throw the game the last two innings. Passed ball, drops a fly in the 8th and an easy toss in the 9th. Complete mental breakdown or something .

Author:  Nardi [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Yesterday it looked like he was trying to throw the game the last two innings. Passed ball, drops a fly in the 8th and an easy toss in the 9th. Complete mental breakdown or something .


This is who he is. Ask any team he's been on. Nothing is stopping him from being a premier catcher except focus.

Rough job, catcher is. Have to be smart, tactical, skilled, focused, have endurance, and willing to get the shit beat out of you. I've been hard on Grandal. It's only because he's overrated defensively. If he hadn't been hailed as one of MLB's premier defensive catchers, I'd be absolutely fine with the job he's done.

Author:  Rod [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Yesterday it looked like he was trying to throw the game the last two innings. Passed ball, drops a fly in the 8th and an easy toss in the 9th. Complete mental breakdown or something .


This is who he is. Ask any team he's been on. Nothing is stopping him from being a premier catcher except focus.

Rough job, catcher is. Have to be smart, tactical, skilled, focused, have endurance, and willing to get the shit beat out of you. I've been hard on Grandal. It's only because he's overrated defensively. If he hadn't been hailed as one of MLB's premier defensive catchers, I'd be absolutely fine with the job he's done.



I don't think he's been hailed as a top defensive catcher all around. He's been hailed as a top pitch framer.

Author:  Ogie Oglethorpe [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Grandal's pitch framing is valuable and is probably something we'd benefit more from if umps had a consistent strike zone this year. That comes at the cost of being able to react to pitches that miss badly, but it's a trade-off.

His bat is everything it was promised to be and he's easily a top 3 catcher in this league. I'm not unhappy with his performance relative to his contract. he is everything he was advertised to be.

Author:  Nardi [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Yesterday it looked like he was trying to throw the game the last two innings. Passed ball, drops a fly in the 8th and an easy toss in the 9th. Complete mental breakdown or something .


This is who he is. Ask any team he's been on. Nothing is stopping him from being a premier catcher except focus.

Rough job, catcher is. Have to be smart, tactical, skilled, focused, have endurance, and willing to get the shit beat out of you. I've been hard on Grandal. It's only because he's overrated defensively. If he hadn't been hailed as one of MLB's premier defensive catchers, I'd be absolutely fine with the job he's done.



I don't think he's been hailed as a top defensive catcher all around. He's been hailed as a top pitch framer.

Total defense, Fangraphs had him #2 behind Realmuto in 2019. McCann was #9.

What is he this year? Motherfucking 4th. McCann 12th.

I'm telling ya, these whizkids need to go back to the drawing board. Or maybe watch a game now and then.
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... =&enddate=

Author:  RFDC [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

The Hawk wrote:
Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return.

:lol: No matter how many times you say this, it continues to be wrong. McCann is not a top 5 catcher in baseball and he is not bringing in some "excellent" pitching prospects.

Author:  WaitingforRuffcorn [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

RFDC wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return.

:lol: No matter how many times you say this, it continues to be wrong. McCann is not a top 5 catcher in baseball and he is not bringing in some "excellent" pitching prospects.


When was the last time in baseball history that a team did a sign and trade? I am guessing that it has never happened. What would be the advantage of doing so?

Author:  The Hawk [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

RFDC wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return.

:lol: No matter how many times you say this, it continues to be wrong. McCann is not a top 5 catcher in baseball and he is not bringing in some "excellent" pitching prospects.


Not now he won't bring in top prospects because the deadline has passed. He is, though, a top five two way catcher in baseball. No question about it. Hell, the guy is hitting like .360 and just hit two dingers in Pittsburgh. What makes you think he isn't a top catcher? And don't talk generalities, talk specifics. What can't he do as a hitter and a catcher?

Author:  The Hawk [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
RFDC wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return.

:lol: No matter how many times you say this, it continues to be wrong. McCann is not a top 5 catcher in baseball and he is not bringing in some "excellent" pitching prospects.


When was the last time in baseball history that a team did a sign and trade? I am guessing that it has never happened. What would be the advantage of doing so?


Teams do it when the team they are trading with is over the salary cap. The team that has the player can sign the player for more money, then trade him to the team with the salary cap problem without incurring the salary cap penalty. It doesn't happen a lot but it isn't rare either.

Author:  Rod [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Yesterday it looked like he was trying to throw the game the last two innings. Passed ball, drops a fly in the 8th and an easy toss in the 9th. Complete mental breakdown or something .


This is who he is. Ask any team he's been on. Nothing is stopping him from being a premier catcher except focus.

Rough job, catcher is. Have to be smart, tactical, skilled, focused, have endurance, and willing to get the shit beat out of you. I've been hard on Grandal. It's only because he's overrated defensively. If he hadn't been hailed as one of MLB's premier defensive catchers, I'd be absolutely fine with the job he's done.



I don't think he's been hailed as a top defensive catcher all around. He's been hailed as a top pitch framer.

Total defense, Fangraphs had him #2 behind Realmuto in 2019. McCann was #9.

What is he this year? Motherfucking 4th. McCann 12th.


I'm telling ya, these whizkids need to go back to the drawing board. Or maybe watch a game now and then.
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... =&enddate=


I think that's because the formula gives so much weight to pitch framing though.

Author:  RFDC [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

The Hawk wrote:
RFDC wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return.

:lol: No matter how many times you say this, it continues to be wrong. McCann is not a top 5 catcher in baseball and he is not bringing in some "excellent" pitching prospects.


Not now he won't bring in top prospects because the deadline has passed. He is, though, a top five two way catcher in baseball. No question about it. Hell, the guy is hitting like .360 and just hit two dingers in Pittsburgh. What makes you think he isn't a top catcher? And don't talk generalities, talk specifics. What can't he do as a hitter and a catcher?

Just stop. You have overvalued him for the start.

He is a good catcher. He especially does well with leading the pitchers. But also if he plays every day his bat is going to get exposed.

But if he were a top 5 catcher the Sox would not have spent the money they did on Grandal. Follow the money as always.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

The Hawk wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
RFDC wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return.

:lol: No matter how many times you say this, it continues to be wrong. McCann is not a top 5 catcher in baseball and he is not bringing in some "excellent" pitching prospects.


When was the last time in baseball history that a team did a sign and trade? I am guessing that it has never happened. What would be the advantage of doing so?


Teams do it when the team they are trading with is over the salary cap. The team that has the player can sign the player for more money, then trade him to the team with the salary cap problem without incurring the salary cap penalty. It doesn't happen a lot but it isn't rare either.

No salary cap in MLB

Author:  Bagels [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

:lol:

Author:  Nardi [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Yesterday it looked like he was trying to throw the game the last two innings. Passed ball, drops a fly in the 8th and an easy toss in the 9th. Complete mental breakdown or something .


This is who he is. Ask any team he's been on. Nothing is stopping him from being a premier catcher except focus.

Rough job, catcher is. Have to be smart, tactical, skilled, focused, have endurance, and willing to get the shit beat out of you. I've been hard on Grandal. It's only because he's overrated defensively. If he hadn't been hailed as one of MLB's premier defensive catchers, I'd be absolutely fine with the job he's done.



I don't think he's been hailed as a top defensive catcher all around. He's been hailed as a top pitch framer.

Total defense, Fangraphs had him #2 behind Realmuto in 2019. McCann was #9.

What is he this year? Motherfucking 4th. McCann 12th.


I'm telling ya, these whizkids need to go back to the drawing board. Or maybe watch a game now and then.
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... =&enddate=


I think that's because the formula gives so much weight to pitch framing though.

That would explain last year's difference between McCann and Grandal, but not this year. THIS year is a total mystery.

Author:  The Hawk [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yasmani Grandal's Defensive Ability

RFDC wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
RFDC wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Certainly, they are two of the top five catchers all around in all of baseball. I hope that they re-sign McCann in the off season or at least do a sign and trade for him that brings in some excellent prospects(preferably pitching) in return.

:lol: No matter how many times you say this, it continues to be wrong. McCann is not a top 5 catcher in baseball and he is not bringing in some "excellent" pitching prospects.


Not now he won't bring in top prospects because the deadline has passed. He is, though, a top five two way catcher in baseball. No question about it. Hell, the guy is hitting like .360 and just hit two dingers in Pittsburgh. What makes you think he isn't a top catcher? And don't talk generalities, talk specifics. What can't he do as a hitter and a catcher?

Just stop. You have overvalued him for the start.

He is a good catcher. He especially does well with leading the pitchers. But also if he plays every day his bat is going to get exposed.

But if he were a top 5 catcher the Sox would not have spent the money they did on Grandal. Follow the money as always.


I think that the White Sox undervalued him. When they got him from Detroit, he was probably going to be a stop gap until their number 1 draft pick, Collins, ascended to the majors. McCann shocked everyone when he did so well last year but still the Sox were not convinced he could last an they went after Grandal. So, what did McCann do? He didn't sulk but became an even better hitter and improved his pitch framing by getting input from Grandal.

Nardi and I both love McCann and we don't always agree on a player. But McCann on the market will get paid as a top five guy as a catcher No doubt about it. He's always had the reputation as a catcher who pitchers loved and was solid defensively. ANd he was always considered an okay offensive player. Well, HE LEARNED how to go to right field and his BA climbed. That's the simplest way that I can describe why he is a top tier offensive catcher right now. And now he is also I think, looking for a pitch early in the count that he can pull and hit out of the park. A classic over-achiever and one I think that down the road will make a fine coach or manager.

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