So fucking cheap
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| Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=127704 |
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| Author: | conns7901 [ Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
So fucking cheap
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| Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
How’s this stuff work? Do both sides come in blind or have they negotiated a bit beforehand and then fall into arbitration eventually? |
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| Author: | conns7901 [ Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
This Ends in Antioch wrote: How’s this stuff work? Do both sides come in blind or have they negotiated a bit beforehand and then fall into arbitration eventually? They negotiate and if they can not come to an agreement it goes to arbitration. |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
I believe they can keep negotiating until when the arbitration hearing starts. So they will probably work out some kind of incentives to reach agreement before Opening Day. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
conns7901 wrote: So fucking cheap I'm pretty sure the sides don't know each other's figures. Don't make it sound like the Sox were trying to beat him out of 200 grand. |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
This is how arb works...this (specifically) doesn't make the Sox cheap. Sitting out this offseason on big name free agents makes the Sox cheap. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
I think the team files a request for arbitration, kind of like a court case, in which the team states its opinion. The player responds with its number. A date is set for hearing where they present the evidence to justify their positions in front of a third party arbitrator. In the meantime, they try to reach a settlement somewhere in the middle or a long term contract. You can do it post hearing while the arbitrator provides a written decision. No big deal. The bad part of arbitration is the team has to present information on why the player isn't worth anything. Most agents/lawyers will not let them sit in on the hearing because it creates bad will. It's always best to find middle ground. I suspect Giolito is a particularly sensitive guy |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
good dolphin wrote: I think the team files a request for arbitration, kind of like a court case, in which the team states its opinion. The player responds with its number. A date is set for hearing where they present the evidence to justify their positions in front of a third party arbitrator. In the meantime, they try to reach a settlement somewhere in the middle or a long term contract. You can do it post hearing while the arbitrator provides a written decision. No big deal. The bad part of arbitration is the team has to present information on why the player isn't worth anything. Most agents/lawyers will not let them sit in on the hearing because it creates bad will. It's always best to find middle ground. I suspect Giolito is a particularly sensitive guy In this case though, the White Sox should probably just show up to the hearing and say "He's great. Either offer is fine" and walk out. |
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| Author: | Cashman [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
Brick wrote: good dolphin wrote: I think the team files a request for arbitration, kind of like a court case, in which the team states its opinion. The player responds with its number. A date is set for hearing where they present the evidence to justify their positions in front of a third party arbitrator. In the meantime, they try to reach a settlement somewhere in the middle or a long term contract. You can do it post hearing while the arbitrator provides a written decision. No big deal. The bad part of arbitration is the team has to present information on why the player isn't worth anything. Most agents/lawyers will not let them sit in on the hearing because it creates bad will. It's always best to find middle ground. I suspect Giolito is a particularly sensitive guy In this case though, the White Sox should probably just show up to the hearing and say "He's great. Either offer is fine" and walk out. I think the whole thing is petty, but he is not going to re-sign with the Sox. I think this is moot. |
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| Author: | Jaw Breaker [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: conns7901 wrote: So fucking cheap I'm pretty sure the sides don't know each other's figures. Don't make it sound like the Sox were trying to beat him out of 200 grand. Not sure that's true, but it would be funny if the White Sox actually came in higher than Giolito's offer...and then said we'll take yours. |
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| Author: | Chet Coppock's Fur Coat [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
Brick wrote: good dolphin wrote: I think the team files a request for arbitration, kind of like a court case, in which the team states its opinion. The player responds with its number. A date is set for hearing where they present the evidence to justify their positions in front of a third party arbitrator. In the meantime, they try to reach a settlement somewhere in the middle or a long term contract. You can do it post hearing while the arbitrator provides a written decision. No big deal. The bad part of arbitration is the team has to present information on why the player isn't worth anything. Most agents/lawyers will not let them sit in on the hearing because it creates bad will. It's always best to find middle ground. I suspect Giolito is a particularly sensitive guy In this case though, the White Sox should probably just show up to the hearing and say "He's great. Either offer is fine" and walk out. It will never get to a hearing over $200k. They will agree on some sort of "easy to hit if he is decent" bonus like top 10 in AL Cy Young voting and raise the base by $75k and be done with it. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 200k for Lucas? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: conns7901 wrote: So fucking cheap |
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| Author: | conns7901 [ Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
GLENDALE, Ariz. — Lucas Giolito and his family expressed frustration and disappointment Wednesday over having to go through the arbitration process with the White Sox after the two sides, $200,000 apart in their filings Tuesday, failed to make a settlement. Arguably the ace of the White Sox pitching staff and a candidate to be their Opening Day starter a third straight year, Giolito filed for $7.5 million while the Sox filed at $7.3 million. Giolito said the sides were as close as $50,000 ($7.4 million and $7.45 million) in pre-filing negotiations before the Sox lowered their number. Such a tiny gap seems unnecessary, but the Sox standing their ground and drawing a line in the sand went over like a lead balloon with fans, many sharing their displeasure with management on social media. “Very frustrating,” Giolito said at the team’s spring training complex at Camelback Ranch. “I love White Sox fans and I appreciated all the love from those guys [on social media]. It’s just very unfortunate, disheartening.” One agent suggested it could be a placeholder while a long-term deal is negotiated. “It would be absurd if they actually went to a hearing on this,” the agent said. “It would signify hard feelings on both sides. Not a positive for either side.” Giolito, who earned $4.15 million in his first year of arbitration last season, will be eligible for free agency after the 2023 season and seems headed elsewhere if he doesn’t sign an extension. “Like I’ve always said about extensions, I absolutely love this team,” he said. “The more I play the more I understand my value as a player. And I just want fair. It’s always fair for me, that’s where I’m at.” Giolito’s father expressed frustration with the Sox in harsher terms on Twitter. “It would be ridiculous to arbitrate over $50K,” Rick Giolito tweeted. “The arbitator would say WTF? I do not appreciate that the Sox lowered their offer almost twice as much as Lucas raised his. Luc was trying to be fair. Sox trying to punish him for not taking their offer?” General manager Rick Hahn, who declined to discuss particulars of the negotiation spoke face to face with Giolito Wednesday morning and said the process won’t have “negative impact on that relationship going forward.” “This is not a reflection anything to do with him,” Hahn said. “This is a function of the arbitration process.” After posting a 6.13 ERA and walking an AL worst 90 batters in 2018, numbers that classified him as arguably the worst starting pitcher in baseball, Giolito bounced back in a big way, finishing sixth, seventh and 11th in AL Cy Young voting the last three seasons. He has an All-Star Game appearance and no-hitter on his resume and is one of the team’s biggest and brightest personalities. “For it to come down to a 50K difference prior to the filing, it’s like, ‘Come on,’ ’’ Giolito, the team’s player representative, said. “It’s an upsetting part of the process. It’s why a lot of us don’t enjoy the business side of the process.” “Usually these things come down to a small amount,” Hahn said. “Last year on Lucas in fact, there was a slightly larger gap at the end and we reached to get something done and were successful. We tried to reach again this year and thus far came up a little short. But obviously you look and we’re $200 grand apart sitting here today … that being a small gap, we’ll see where things go.” Because of the lockout, hearings arbitration hearings will take place during the season. The Sox have gone to arbitration only with Avisail Garcia and Yolmer Sanchez during Hahn’s tenure. Hearings can get contentious. But Giolito said that, or anything leading to it, won’t affect his performance. “At that point it’s out of your hands and I am able to focus on the team and what we’re trying to accomplish,” he said. “It has no effect on that whatsoever. I’m always going to give 100 percent for the guys behind me, and we’re trying to do something special this year. “It was just frustrating. You want to get something fair done and it’s unfortunate this is the spot we’re in today.” I guess the Sox are mad he didn't take the below market extension with multiple option years last April. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
If 50K isn't a big deal, why didn't he accept it? |
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| Author: | Rod [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
The Sox are well known for avoiding arbitration. So I'm gonna say there's another side to the story other than the one Giolito's dad is promoting. Which party was negotiating in bad faith? |
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| Author: | Cashman [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: The Sox are well known for avoiding arbitration. So I'm gonna say there's another side to the story other than the one Giolito's dad is promoting. Which party was negotiating in bad faith? Giolito is a diva. He was one of the worst SPs in the game at one point, and they stuck with him. He is acting like a fool with this. Reiny should of just paid him and avoided this. |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
I think the Sox have a pretty hard line stance of not giving out extra cash to starters that dont make it out of the 4th inning in playoff games. |
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| Author: | vitoscotti [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
Anything involving money should be "it'll get worked out", "that's for my agent & team to discuss", blah, blah, blah. Millionaire crying about $. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
I'm fine with Uncle Jerry telling Giolito to go fuck himself. He's not a real ace of a staff. His Sammy Sosa impression is likely going to lead to a suspension or injury. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
good dolphin wrote: If 50K isn't a big deal, why didn't he accept it? funny how the dolphin narrative changes depending on what side of town this stuff happens on
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
RFDC wrote: good dolphin wrote: If 50K isn't a big deal, why didn't he accept it? funny how the dolphin narrative changes depending on what side of town this stuff happens onI don't particularly like Lucas Giolito. He will leave in a huff in a couple of years, only to underperform for some high bidder. Until then, I'll cheer for him when he pitches |
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| Author: | Nas [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
good dolphin wrote: RFDC wrote: good dolphin wrote: If 50K isn't a big deal, why didn't he accept it? funny how the dolphin narrative changes depending on what side of town this stuff happens onI don't particularly like Lucas Giolito. He will leave in a huff in a couple of years, only to underperform for some high bidder. Until then, I'll cheer for him when he pitches Completely agree |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
He also has a three year downward trend as a player |
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| Author: | badrogue17 [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
He runs his mouth like Sale with half his talent and results. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
badrogue17 wrote: He runs his mouth like Sale with half his talent and results. Yep! |
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| Author: | Jaw Breaker [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
Nas wrote: I'm fine with Uncle Jerry telling Giolito to go fuck himself. He's not a real ace of a staff. His Sammy Sosa impression is likely going to lead to a suspension or injury. Agree...I think the sticky stuff also had something to do with his sudden improvement. His refusal to take 7.4m instead of 7.45m indicates a lack of confidence in himself and fear that this could be the biggest contract he gets. If it were me, I'd take the 7.4m and use it as motivation to stick it to the Sox when I'm a free agent. |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
Sounds like the dynasty that never was is already falling out. They already were sleepwalking during free agency refusing to upgrade Right Field, Second base or the rotation and now some of the top talent wants out. You hate to see it...sad! |
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| Author: | BigW72 [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
Nas wrote: good dolphin wrote: RFDC wrote: good dolphin wrote: If 50K isn't a big deal, why didn't he accept it? funny how the dolphin narrative changes depending on what side of town this stuff happens onI don't particularly like Lucas Giolito. He will leave in a huff in a couple of years, only to underperform for some high bidder. Until then, I'll cheer for him when he pitches Completely agree I also agree. The Lucas Giolito resume does not have the credentials for crying to the media about $50K. |
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| Author: | Warren Newson [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
BigW72 wrote: Nas wrote: good dolphin wrote: RFDC wrote: good dolphin wrote: If 50K isn't a big deal, why didn't he accept it? funny how the dolphin narrative changes depending on what side of town this stuff happens onI don't particularly like Lucas Giolito. He will leave in a huff in a couple of years, only to underperform for some high bidder. Until then, I'll cheer for him when he pitches Completely agree I also agree. The Lucas Giolito resume does not have the credentials for crying to the media about $50K. I think we're getting a bit carried away here: 1. 2019: 14-9, 3.41, 5.8 WAR, 2. 2020: 4-3, 3.48, .8 WAR, 3. 2021: 11-9, 3.53, 4.3 WAR. Are we really prepared to kick this guy in the ass on the way out the door? If the Sox had to go out and buy that production on the open market, what do you think they would pay for it? |
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| Author: | BigW72 [ Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can't cough up 50k for Lucas? |
Warren Newson wrote: BigW72 wrote: Nas wrote: good dolphin wrote: RFDC wrote: good dolphin wrote: If 50K isn't a big deal, why didn't he accept it? funny how the dolphin narrative changes depending on what side of town this stuff happens onI don't particularly like Lucas Giolito. He will leave in a huff in a couple of years, only to underperform for some high bidder. Until then, I'll cheer for him when he pitches Completely agree I also agree. The Lucas Giolito resume does not have the credentials for crying to the media about $50K. I think we're getting a bit carried away here: 1. 2019: 14-9, 3.41, 5.8 WAR, 2. 2020: 4-3, 3.48, .8 WAR, 3. 2021: 11-9, 3.53, 4.3 WAR. Are we really prepared to kick this guy in the ass on the way out the door? If the Sox had to go out and buy that production on the open market, what do you think they would pay for it? No....He's a very good pitcher who is under contract. I also know what he is NOT.... https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxe ... 0080.shtml |
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