Chicago Fanatics Message Board :: View topic - Is this the time to deal Javier Vazquez?

Will KW do it? He traded for Vazquez; would he see trading him away as a sign of failure? It wouldn't be, but who knows?
Trading Garland would be a mistake unless you're sure you can't resign him after next year. Garland is much more consistant than Vazquez.

Good point. I wasn't clear enough on my point about KW and his pride perhaps getting in the way of dealing Vazquez. He dealt Chris Young for Vazquez and Young looks like he may well pan out.

The guy has been terrific his last few starts. He gave up a couple homers today and still held the Detroit offense down for the most part. 8 innings is what a manager kills for.
Problem is, will he be near this level for the near future, or is it part of his maddening inconsistancy? I would think now's the time to trade him and you could get quite a bit for him, but that's just one man's opinion. Thoughts?

Bulldog Scott wrote:

I would say that he didn't pan out when he was needed most, which was the beginning of this year. THAT'S why they traded for him; to help get them back to the world series. he wasn't great at the beginning of this year when they started going in the crapper.

I was talking about this statement not about trading him.

DATE OPP RESULT IP H R ER HR BB SO GB FB PIT BF GSc DEC REL ERA*
May. 27 TB L 11-5 6.2 8 5 5 2 1 7 7 6 107 29 44 L(2-3) - 4.50
May. 19 @CHC L 11-6 7.0 5 5 5 2 1 8 8 8 100 27 54 - - 4.21
May. 13 KC L 11-1 6.0 7 4 4 1 3 3 8 8 108 27 42 L(2-2) - 3.86
May. 8 @MIN L 7-4 7.0 4 1 1 1 1 7 10 4 107 24 71 - - 3.52
May. 1 @SEA L 5-2 7.1 6 4 4 1 1 5 7 11 115 28 54 L(2-1) - 4.02
Monthly Totals 34.0 30 19 19 7 7 30 40 37 537 135 -- 0-3 0 sv 5.03

However, if there is a team with an MLB ready shortstop who can bat leadoff, that would be my priority

the Sox will be fighting for 4th place again next year.

Quote:

However, if there is a team with an MLB ready shortstop who can bat leadoff, that would be my priority

Erick Aybar from LAA. Go get 'em Kenny!

The Tigers and the Indians are build to win for the next 5 years. It's a good thing the Sox won when they did, because it's going to be tough to make it back to the playoffs in the near future.

Author:	kerchungathunk [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Is this the time to deal Javier Vazquez?
The guy has been terrific his last few starts. He gave up a couple homers today and still held the Detroit offense down for the most part. 8 innings is what a manager kills for. Problem is, will he be near this level for the near future, or is it part of his maddening inconsistancy? I would think now's the time to trade him and you could get quite a bit for him, but that's just one man's opinion. Thoughts?

Author:	Stinkfinger The Crow [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:
He's never been more tradeable. Even when he wasn't this hot, he still had a bargain basement deal. Only problem is a limited NTC, which prevents him from going to west coast teams, if I'm not mistaken. He or Garland are going to bring the Sox the best in return value on a trade.

Author:	kerchungathunk [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:
Will KW do it? He traded for Vazquez; would he see trading him away as a sign of failure? It wouldn't be, but who knows? Trading Garland would be a mistake unless you're sure you can't resign him after next year. Garland is much more consistant than Vazquez.

Author:	Stinkfinger The Crow [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:
kerchungathunk wrote: Will KW do it? He traded for Vazquez; would he see trading him away as a sign of failure? It wouldn't be, but who knows? Trading Garland would be a mistake unless you're sure you can't resign him after next year. Garland is much more consistant than Vazquez. I don't know if it would be viewed as a failure. He traded Garcia, and I don't think anyone considers that deal a failure.

Author:	kerchungathunk [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:
Good point. I wasn't clear enough on my point about KW and his pride perhaps getting in the way of dealing Vazquez. He dealt Chris Young for Vazquez and Young looks like he may well pan out. Would KW be stubborn and hang onto Vazquez out of pride/fear of being seen as a move that failed? I don't think it would be a failure either, but GMs seem to be a proud bunch. Dealing Vazquez would be a good move as I see it.

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Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:
kerchungathunk wrote: Good point. I wasn't clear enough on my point about KW and his pride perhaps getting in the way of dealing Vazquez. He dealt Chris Young for Vazquez and Young looks like he may well pan out. I would say that he didn't pan out when he was needed most, which was last year and the beginning of this year. THAT'S why they traded for him; to help get them back to the world series. He was awful last year, and he wasn't great at the beginning of this year when they started going in the crapper. I would unload him if they can get a top tier prospect for him. In past markets, that's what dealing Vasquez would warrant. In today's market, I'm not so sure. If they can't unload him, they will still have an average to above average starter in their rotation at a somewhat reasonable rate.

Author:	Juiced [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:20 pm ]
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If you trade him you are basically trading C.Young for whatever you get in return. Odds are you will not get a better AAA ready player then young. You need pitching to win, he's cheap and a solid number 2 starter. Trading him would be a mistake!

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:46 pm ]
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Nas wrote: I disagree Bulldog. It's not the first time. I'm not saying that they should give him away for peanuts, but they should seriously consider trading him now while he's pitching very well, otherwise they run the risk of him pulling a Contreras. The last two or three years, he has been average at best. If Kenny gets a STUD prospect back, then they should move him. If he gets a bunch of lame offers, then they don't lose anything by keeping him and seeing if he can maintain what he's done so far.

Author:	BD [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Is this the time to deal Javier Vazquez?
kerchungathunk wrote: The guy has been terrific his last few starts. He gave up a couple homers today and still held the Detroit offense down for the most part. 8 innings is what a manager kills for. Problem is, will he be near this level for the near future, or is it part of his maddening inconsistancy? I would think now's the time to trade him and you could get quite a bit for him, but that's just one man's opinion. Thoughts? The White Sox could probably get a lot for him as he is locked up to a very reasonable contract (in today's market), and is pitching extremely well. The problem with trading him is what I just said. On top of that, if you trade him for younger players, can the White Sox really compete in the AL Central in the immediate future with a thin rotation after Buerhle, Garland, and Denks ? (I'm assuming Contreras would be moved at some point as well).

Author:	BD [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:
kerchungathunk wrote: Will KW do it? He traded for Vazquez; would he see trading him away as a sign of failure? It wouldn't be, but who knows? Trading Garland would be a mistake unless you're sure you can't resign him after next year. Garland is much more consistant than Vazquez. Let's not also forget that 10 players (including Contreras) are under contract for next season at approximately 79 million dollars, which doesn't leave the Sox with a lot of flexibility. Even if they move Contreras, I wouldn't be surprised if they have to pick up a portion of that salary as well, but back to my point that moving one of those pitchers for 2-3 younger players on the verge of the majors would fill holes, and free up money. The negative side would be a starting pitching staff that would have lots of question marks, and probably unable to compete in the AL Central until/if Denks/Masset/Gonzalez, etc. grow up.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Nas wrote: Bulldog Scott wrote: I would say that he didn't pan out when he was needed most, which was the beginning of this year. THAT'S why they traded for him; to help get them back to the world series. he wasn't great at the beginning of this year when they started going in the crapper. I was talking about this statement not about trading him. Quote: DATE OPP RESULT IP H R ER HR BB SO GB FB PIT BF GSc DEC REL ERA* May. 27 TB L 11-5 6.2 8 5 5 2 1 7 7 6 107 29 44 L(2-3) - 4.50 May. 19 @CHC L 11-6 7.0 5 5 5 2 1 8 8 8 100 27 54 - - 4.21 May. 13 KC L 11-1 6.0 7 4 4 1 3 3 8 8 108 27 42 L(2-2) - 3.86 May. 8 @MIN L 7-4 7.0 4 1 1 1 1 7 10 4 107 24 71 - - 3.52 May. 1 @SEA L 5-2 7.1 6 4 4 1 1 5 7 11 115 28 54 L(2-1) - 4.02 Monthly Totals 34.0 30 19 19 7 7 30 40 37 537 135 -- 0-3 0 sv 5.03 0-3 with an ERA over 5.00 in May. That's less than great, but not awful.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:
I commend you for putting a lot of thought into this. But I don't think we're on entirely different sides of this one. I said he wasn't great at the beginning of this year. Not that he was awful. 0-3 with a 5.03 in May when they fell out of contention certainly qualifies as less than great, but looking at your game by game break down, he wasn't awful, either. I have edited my comments in my last post to reflect this.

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:55 am ]
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Nas, I agree with you, but this is the story of Vazquez's career. He has mind blowing stuff but always seems to do enough to lose. I might dismiss the history if he was younger, but he is 31 now. It's not really a trend. He is on fire right now. Omar Minaya from the Mets loves him, and they have some good young players to give. If I were KW I would hold out for nothing less than Milledge + a prospect. However, if there is a team with an MLB ready shortstop who can bat leadoff, that would be my priority.

Author:	Keyser Soze [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:19 am ]
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Quote: However, if there is a team with an MLB ready shortstop who can bat leadoff, that would be my priority Erick Aybar from LAA. Go get 'em Kenny!

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Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:03 am ]
Post subject:
Nas wrote: the Sox will be fighting for 4th place again next year. I am kind of resigned to that fate. Bad times on the south side.

Author:	WestmontMike [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:22 am ]
Post subject:
Vasquez is having one of his best years... I'd much rather keep Vasquez as a #3 starter than trade him. Kenny Williams has made some good trades in the past...but I don't see getting equal value for Vasquez

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:46 am ]
Post subject:
sure they might be battling for 4th place, but with a rotation that starts with buehrle, garland, vazquez, and danks they could easily be fighting for a playoff spot ths time next year. of course they need better defense and a new bullpen, but im sure you get the jist

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:55 am ]
Post subject:
The Tigers and the Indians are build to win for the next 5 years. It's a good thing the Sox won when they did, because it's going to be tough to make it back to the playoffs in the near future.

Author:	WestmontMike [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:59 am ]
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I just got free tickets to Saturday's Sox game...yeah!!! Won't Vasquez be pitching?

Author:	Stinkfinger The Crow [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:
Bulldog Scott wrote: The Tigers and the Indians are build to win for the next 5 years. It's a good thing the Sox won when they did, because it's going to be tough to make it back to the playoffs in the near future. Not to mention the Royals' farm system is loaded, and the Twins are perennially competitive, and at the very least tough to play against. Being in arguably the best division in baseball doesn't make things any easier on Kenny.