Now that the Sox have placed him on Waivers, can I finally officially declare the trade for C Lee a Salary Dump?

No way Kenny wins a world series with Maggs, C lee and Rowand. I can see how 3 All Stars would screw up the Latin culture kenny created with Iguchi, AJ, Paulie, Crede, Podds, Buerhle, Jenks.

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What? Uhh, they didn't win the World Series with Mags, C Lee and Rowand. We saw that in 2003 and 2004.

You can't really call the C Lee a salary dump because he wasn't a free agent until after the 2006 season. Kenny really wanted Pods. For better or worse but you can't dismiss that World Series in 2005.

Plus, although Mags is doing great now, keep in mind he missed half of the 2005 season. So what we got from Dye was more then Mags could have given us that year. Maybe if we kept Mags we don't win the division because he was out while Dye put up 32 homers. Oh yeah. Dye was the World Series MVP too.

yeah i wouldnt consider it a salary dump either, he played a significant role in 05, and while Lee is a great player, much better than pods right now, we needed a leadoff guy and pods was the perfect leadoff guy for that year. I wouldnt take back that trade for anything

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

We ended up winning the division by 6 games. But that last series where we swept Clevland meant nothing to us so we were relaxed. We were 3 up going in.

You can't say that the combo of Lee/Mags would have won more games then the Dye/Pods combo in 2005. No way. In fact, there is no doubt in my mind that we don't win the division with the Lee/Mags combo.

Like I said, Mags missed half of 2005 and was average when he came back. Pods was huge in the first half and helped us win a bunch of close games. Dye, after a slow start, was huge in the 2nd half.

I know it didnt end up meaning a whole lot, but also dont forget up untill the last few weeks of the season last year Dye was a legit MVP candidate, and hes heating up again this year after the break, I hope we sign him to a 1 year deal next year as rumored

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I call it a salary avoidance.

They will end up doing the same thing with Crede.

Oh yeah. Dye was great last year. But I didn't want to argue that cuz we didn't win shit.

I don't know. I just thought the World Series in 2005 would start and finish all arguments over the Dye/Pods over Lee/Mags.

I kind of thought that World Series was a big deal.

Moving Carlos Lee not only brought back Pods and Vizcaino, it freed up the money to sign AJ, El Duque and Iguchi. That might be the key move to winning the world series.

Can't we finally drop the discussion of the Sox dumping salary and/or being cheap? They have a 100mil payroll and are near the top in all of baseball. Just because they don't want to over spend on players or get low cost players in exchange for high cost veterans doesn't mean they are cheap. It was a legit argument in the 90's but the last few years it just doesn't hold any water.

Also keep in mind that the only reason the Sox ended up making the playoffs and fending off Cleveland in 2005 was because of the HUGE lead they built in the first half. Pods was INTEGRAL in winning many of those games with setting the table and pressuring pitchers on the base paths. Lee wouldn't have done that. Maybe they win those same games with his power instead of Pods' speed, but we'll never know so why the hell does it even matter now? Lets say they get Cedeno for Pods. They then flipped Lee for Pods then Cedeno (and a WS) when they would have ended up letting Lee walk for what his asking price was last year. At least this way they'll get a player back instead of just losing Lee like they would have.

Right. They do spend money now.

Plus, back to Big Fan's thought that Lee was a salary dump. I'm quite certain that the Sox 2005 pay roll was more then the 2004 pay roll. So that assertion doesn't make sense. Yeah, Lee made money but not insane money at that point. He was an arbitration guy at that point that the Sox controled for 2 more years. Plus, like Dolphin said, Lee's money was spread out to other players and some.

You can't call it a salary dump when your overall payroll goes up the following year.

White Sox + smart spending = cheap
Cubs + stupid spending = stupid

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

You get a lot of leeway when your smart spending lead to a championship

Sox aren't cheap. Through Trades or free agent signings this is my list of big names that the Sox have spent money on to go out and get in recent years. Some of these guys like Ritchie, Koch, and Clayton were complete busts but coming in they were upper level talent at their positions that other teams would have spent the money on had the Sox not done so.

Albert Belle
Bartolo Colon
David Wells
Jermaine Dye
Billy Koch
Todd Ritchie
Royce Clayton
Carl Everett
Tadahito Iguchi
Scott Podsednik
Jim Thome
Freddy Garcia
Resigning of Konerko
Jose Contereras
El Duque
AJ Alphabetzynski

There are at least 2 teams in the Sox division that stictly live off of what they grow, in the case of the Sox they've developed some key people but have always been able to go out and cut a check to get players.

HAwkeye Vince, Avoidance might be a good word.

yeah the Guy leading the AL in Batting Avg and 2nd in RBI's, combined with the Guy leading the NL in RBI's, I could see how a GM would not like that!

PLEASE: Kenny Got Lucky! Scotty Podds is a good player who when healthy can be an above avg player, same with Dye, same with Thome. You can even say Great polayers if you want. Kenny got lucky they all got healthy for one year at one time.

After they won the world series in 2005 and I heard the talk of a "Dynasty" I laughed. No way Jerry pays all these guys, especially all the pitchers, plus no way they all stay healthy.

I could argue this all day. When Jerry and Kenny got rid of Manuel, they talked alot of shit about not having a power htting team, they wanted speed. Didn;t they lead the Majors in Homers in 2005?

Don't get confused here. I am not telling you that the team got lucky during the year and did not deserve to win. They absolutely did. They had been the best team that year. Simple.

But it surprised the crap out of the GM and the owner as they didn't expect it at all, The World Series was not even on the radar that year. Breaking even was the goal

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

they're always gonna hit a lot of HRs because the ball flies out of the cell.

the dynasty talk was rather silly, but the '06 team had more than enough talent to at least make the playoffs. the players failed last year, kenny has this year

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good point nas. plus, for whatever reason, those guys didnt work out for the sox. for years it was lee, mags, thomas, and valintin bashing the hell out of the ball. they generally always put up great numbers. but how many playoff games did they win with those guys on the field?

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You said it Nas. Wouldn't the Cubs love to be mismanaged to a World Series? You gotta love a GM that accidently wins one. That's even a greater compliment to Kenny Williams. According to Big Fan Kenny won one without even trying.

show me a GM that "accidently" wins a world series title, and ill show you a good GM......for that season at least

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I know you could which leads me back to my desire to hear the REAL story for your personal dislike of KW. Give me the goods BF.

Skin pigmentation.

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Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

I wouldn't believe that even if BF came out and said that was the reason. Like George Costanza, I NEED details.

I'm sure that's not the reason either. I'm just being an idiot.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

1. Jerry extends deep. This guy is a pure genius, not even a question and he has manipulated the city, state and baseball in his favr. I take nothing away from Jerry for doing it , but yet, it does not make it right to hold Baseball up and the State of Illinois so he gets a free stadium?

I will hold off on KW and none of it has to do with his Skin color,

But let me ask all of you this question.

If one team should be eliminated from MLB which team would that be?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Tampa Bay.
Really, what are they but a AAA team?

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My vote would be either the Red Sox or Yankees. I don't care.

I would just enjoy watching ESPN personnel's heads explode from a sudden lack of programming.