Chicago Fanatics Message Board :: View topic - 3-4-5 starters making you nervous?

See, everybody in our division has a shitty 4&5 guy. Eary on those 4's and 5's will match up. On those days the Sox are gonna have to win 10-9 games.

I think Danks might step up this year. I think Floyd is gonna suck. He'll be sent down to the minors after his 6th start.

Not sure what Contreras will be this year.

What is considered a good WHIP? What's considered a great WHIP?

The Sox will feel it more than most teams though if any of them are complete busts then you should really be worried as your next step is Masset and Wasserman as starters.

Gio was traded for Swisher.

Are you pining for Freddy? He missed most of last season with arm trouble. I have no idea where he is.

It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either.

Tall Midget wrote:

It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either.

Buehrle is fine. Actually, Vasquez deserved to be a 18 or 19 game winner last year. He still is a concern cuz he never has had back to back good years.

Beardown wrote:

Tall Midget wrote:

It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either.

Buehrle is fine. Actually, Vasquez deserved to be a 18 or 19 game winner last year. He still is a concern cuz he never has had back to back good years.

Let's put it this way: If you win the division with Buehrle and Vazquez as your top two starters, it's highly unlikely that you've done so because of your starting pitching.

Ok. So they release Floyd if they're out of options. My point is I see him being so bad they'll have to bring up someone. I hope I'm wrong. You'll always have Charlie Haeger to call up. :lol:

That SOB will be in the Sox minors for 10 more years. They'll wait forever until he perfects that knuckle ball.

Beardown wrote:

Tall Midget wrote:

It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either.

Buehrle is fine. Actually, Vasquez deserved to be a 18 or 19 game winner last year. He still is a concern cuz he never has had back to back good years.

Let's put it this way: If you win the division with Buehrle and Vazquez as your top two starters, it's highly unlikely that you've done so because of your starting pitching.

Pitching Matchups to Start the Season

Buehrle v Sabathia

Vazquez v Carmona

Danks v Westbrook

Contreras v Robertson

Floyd v Willis

Buehrle v. Verlander

Floyd vs. Willis... what's the over/under on that one going to be? Willis flat out sucks and Floyd isn't consistant. Gavin has an off day and there will be 12+ runs scored that day if the temperature is halfway decent. Both teams can hit the ball just fine.

kerchungathunk wrote:

Willis flat out sucks? Are you kidding me? I'll take him over anyone on the Sox right now. Every Sox pitcher is capable of starting 2-10.

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	3-4-5 starters making you nervous?
OK seeing is this is by far my biggest concern with the Sox this year, I looked up the 3-4-5 starters on the other AL Central teams. (all numbers are WHIP / ERA) CWS 1.54 / 5.50 LH JOHN DANKS 1.56 / 5.57 RH JOSE CONTRERAS 1.49 / 5.27 RH GAVIN FLOYD DET 1.38 / 5.01 RH JEREMY BONDERMAN 1.47 / 4.76 LH NATE ROBERTSON 1.60 / 5.17 LH DONTRELLE WILLIS CLE 1.41 / 4.32 RH JAKE WESTBROOK 1.39 / 4.59 RH PAUL BYRD 1.52 / 6.29 LH CLIFF LEE MIN 1.53 / 5.10 RH BOOF BONSER 1.60 / 4.93 RH LIVAN HERNANDEZ 1.40 / 4.73 RH KEVIN SLOWEY KC 1.30 / 3.69 RH ZACK GREINKE 1.55 / 4.05 LH JOHN BALE 1.50 / 5.55 RH BRETT TOMKO I don't exactly see any Cy Young contenders there...

Author:	sportsfan [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:23 am ]
Post subject:
What is considered a good WHIP? What's considered a great WHIP?

Author:	bigfan [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:14 pm ]
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1.30 is a good WHIP, anything below it is great could the sox 3,4 5 be good Yes, could the cubs 3,4,5 be good yes. The Sox will feel it more than most teams though if any of them are complete busts then you should really be worried as your next step is Masset and Wasserman as starters.

Author:	Beardown [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:
See, everybody in our division has a shitty 4&5 guy. Eary on those 4's and 5's will match up. On those days the Sox are gonna have to win 10-9 games. I think Danks might step up this year. I think Floyd is gonna suck. He'll be sent down to the minors after his 6th start. Not sure what Contreras will be this year.

Author:	BD [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:
Beardown wrote: See, everybody in our division has a shitty 4&5 guy. Eary on those 4's and 5's will match up. On those days the Sox are gonna have to win 10-9 games. I think Danks might step up this year. I think Floyd is gonna suck. He'll be sent down to the minors after his 6th start. Not sure what Contreras will be this year. Floyd is out of options, and the White Sox don't have much in their minor league system that they can turn to if they do have injuries or underperformance.

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Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:16 pm ]
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NSJ wrote: What is considered a good WHIP? What's considered a great WHIP? WHIP= walks + Hits per innings pitched basically think about this way; 1.3 would be 1 and a third hits or walks per inning, meaning that your facing 4-5 batters, 3 make outs, and hopefully the one(s) that got on didn't have extra base hits or somebody got erased in a double play. Guys who strike out a lot of guys (Vazquez) or get a lot of double plays or pick-offs (Buerhle) can afford higher WHIPS... but that's a whole other discussion. Most are in the 1.30-1.40 range, 1.10 is Johan Santana territory, and 1.50 is Double A ball.

Author:	Beardown [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:17 pm ]
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Ok. So they release Floyd if they're out of options. My point is I see him being so bad they'll have to bring up someone. I hope I'm wrong. You'll always have Charlie Haeger to call up. That SOB will be in the Sox minors for 10 more years. They'll wait forever until he perfects that knuckle ball.

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:21 pm ]
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bigfan wrote: The Sox will feel it more than most teams though if any of them are complete busts then you should really be worried as your next step is Masset and Wasserman as starters. Haeger? Broadway? Gio Gonza.... oops, just out of curiousity, where is Freddy Garcia?

Author:	Beardown [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:44 pm ]
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Gio was traded for Swisher. Are you pining for Freddy? He missed most of last season with arm trouble. I have no idea where he is.

Author:	Tall Midget [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:47 pm ]
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It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either.

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:49 pm ]
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Beardown wrote: Gio was traded for Swisher. Are you pining for Freddy? He missed most of last season with arm trouble. I have no idea where he is. I know. I was being sarcastic... just re-iterating that if our guys don't pan out, the pickings are slim...

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:54 pm ]
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Tall Midget wrote: It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either. Who has a better 1-2? Sabathia and Carmona, I'll give you that. Verlander and Rogers, could be a wash... Meche and Bannister... heh actually they arent bad, young and up and coming but the Royals... come on now, it's the Royals! Scott Baker and Boof Bonser? lol... Vazquez and Buerlhe are proven 220+ inning guys that will get you into the 6th-7th every time, they can win the 10-7 games as well as the 3-2 games.

Author:	Beardown [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Tall Midget wrote: It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either. Buehrle is fine. Actually, Vasquez deserved to be a 18 or 19 game winner last year. He still is a concern cuz he never has had back to back good years.

Author:	Tall Midget [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Beardown wrote: Tall Midget wrote: It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either. Buehrle is fine. Actually, Vasquez deserved to be a 18 or 19 game winner last year. He still is a concern cuz he never has had back to back good years. Let's put it this way: If you win the division with Buehrle and Vazquez as your top two starters, it's highly unlikely that you've done so because of your starting pitching.

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:47 pm ]
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They did so with Beurhle and various guys having hot streaks in 2005

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:12 pm ]
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Best case scenario: Anderson hits .300, makes 5 Rowand like WebGems by the deadline, Alexei looks like the 2nd coming of SorryAno, Haeger or Broadway lights up AAA and goes on a 56 inning scoreless streak, Billy Beane's fax machine jams up and in a clerical mistake Gio Gonzalez comes back to the Southside for a Ben Wallace autographed headband and an Eddie Gaedel jersey, and a Jason Schmidt or a Mark Mulder rehabs from arm injuries and are being sold to the highest bidder. goes back to sipping the kool-aid

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:14 pm ]
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Baseball is a funny game. How did Contreras go from winning 15 of 16 to an ERA over 6 in one year? Anything can happen. You can also use all these predictions as toilet paper, by the end of the year nobody knows what will happen.

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Author:	Beardown [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Tall Midget wrote: Beardown wrote: Tall Midget wrote: It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either. Buehrle is fine. Actually, Vasquez deserved to be a 18 or 19 game winner last year. He still is a concern cuz he never has had back to back good years. Let's put it this way: If you win the division with Buehrle and Vazquez as your top two starters, it's highly unlikely that you've done so because of your starting pitching. Absolutly. They're gonna have to hit. See, I'm still holding out that if they're in it, Williams will trade for that extra starter by the deadline. You might be saying, who the hell do they have to offer in their minors? I don't know. Hopefully some kid steps up that other teams want.

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:27 pm ]
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Pitching Matchups to Start the Season Buehrle v Sabathia Vazquez v Carmona Danks v Westbrook Contreras v Robertson Floyd v Willis Buehrle v. Verlander

Author:	BD [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:57 pm ]
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Beardown wrote: Ok. So they release Floyd if they're out of options. My point is I see him being so bad they'll have to bring up someone. I hope I'm wrong. You'll always have Charlie Haeger to call up. That SOB will be in the Sox minors for 10 more years. They'll wait forever until he perfects that knuckle ball. It's pretty bad in that minor league system. I think Lance Broadway would probably get the next shot. He did pitch well out of the bullpen in the meaningless September time period, but I don't think he's viewed as anything more than an average prospect anymore.

Author:	BD [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Tall Midget wrote: Beardown wrote: Tall Midget wrote: It's not just 3-5 that bother me. 1 and 2 aren't so hot, either. Buehrle is fine. Actually, Vasquez deserved to be a 18 or 19 game winner last year. He still is a concern cuz he never has had back to back good years. Let's put it this way: If you win the division with Buehrle and Vazquez as your top two starters, it's highly unlikely that you've done so because of your starting pitching. If they win the division, the starting rotation will be much better than I'm expecting them to perform.

Author:	Beardown [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:58 pm ]
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Apologist wrote: Pitching Matchups to Start the Season Buehrle v Sabathia Vazquez v Carmona Danks v Westbrook Contreras v Robertson Floyd v Willis Buehrle v. Verlander 6-0 baby!!!!!

Author:	BD [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:06 pm ]
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Apologist wrote: Pitching Matchups to Start the Season Buehrle v Sabathia Vazquez v Carmona Danks v Westbrook Contreras v Robertson Floyd v Willis Buehrle v. Verlander The Tigers rotation doesn't look so hot either, but they have a ridiculous lineup. Our lineup should be better than last year, but Detroit's line, at least on paper to start the season, looks pretty amazing. Bonderson, Robertson, and Willis will get 15 wins (or so) just giving up 4 runs in 6 innings, and the Tigers winning games 7-5...

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:09 pm ]
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Shaky pen.

Author:	BD [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:10 pm ]
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Apologist wrote: Shaky pen. Good point there. Tigers could actually blow some of those leads.

Author:	kerchungathunk [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:45 pm ]
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Floyd vs. Willis... what's the over/under on that one going to be? Willis flat out sucks and Floyd isn't consistant. Gavin has an off day and there will be 12+ runs scored that day if the temperature is halfway decent. Both teams can hit the ball just fine.

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:09 pm ]
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kerchungathunk wrote: Floyd vs. Willis... what's the over/under on that one going to be? Willis flat out sucks and Floyd isn't consistant. Gavin has an off day and there will be 12+ runs scored that day if the temperature is halfway decent. Both teams can hit the ball just fine. Sox' overly right-handed lineup has murdered southpaws over the last few years... the only guy that appreciably drops off is Thome.

Author:	EG Greg [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:36 pm ]
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kerchungathunk wrote: Floyd vs. Willis... what's the over/under on that one going to be? Willis flat out sucks and Floyd isn't consistant. Gavin has an off day and there will be 12+ runs scored that day if the temperature is halfway decent. Both teams can hit the ball just fine. Willis flat out sucks? Are you kidding me? I'll take him over anyone on the Sox right now. Every Sox pitcher is capable of starting 2-10.

Author:	Apologist [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:52 pm ]
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I don't see how a 5.17 ERA, a .294 BAA and a 1.60 WHIP can be described as anything but sucking. And this is in an extremely weak NL with the pitcher batting...

Author:	kerchungathunk [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:01 pm ]
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EG Greg wrote: kerchungathunk wrote: Floyd vs. Willis... what's the over/under on that one going to be? Willis flat out sucks and Floyd isn't consistant. Gavin has an off day and there will be 12+ runs scored that day if the temperature is halfway decent. Both teams can hit the ball just fine. Willis flat out sucks? Are you kidding me? I'll take him over anyone on the Sox right now. Every Sox pitcher is capable of starting 2-10. That herky jerky motion is coming home to roost. He stunk last year and it's the beginning of a rapid end. You'd take Willis over Buehrle? Over Vazquez? I think that's foolish. Buehrle had one bad year and bouced back. Vazquez has lights out stuff... for five innings. He gets past that third time through the order pratfall and he'll be excellent. As far as every Sox pitcher being capable of starting out 2-10, that can be said for many rosters, the Cubs included. The top two in the Sox starting five wouldn't shock me if they started out 5-2 or 6-2 with their stuff and the Sox offense. 10-2... that would surprise me. Willis will be awful this year. Book it.