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In Sox biz for One quetion;)
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Author:  RodeoVann [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Quote:
From Cowleys coulmn today

''Maybe people feel different, but I feel that way. It was harder for us and we had a tougher season than they had from the beginning. They dominate the league, the division. That's why Chicago people feel sure about the Cubs going and we're not.''


Not being a smart ass, not looking for a fight. The only question I have is. why does Ozzie care about a team that is not in the AL? I just dont get why it always seems to come back to the cubs, its just doesnt make sense and Ozzie comes off badly when he does. I like Ozzie, truly do, but he needs to let it go.
Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
It is part of the organizational identity.

I really have never seen a baseball organization that has such strong group think as the white sox. Everyone bash mariotti. Everyone blame the umpires. Everyone feel inferior to the cubs.

It is a testament to Reinsdorf. I don't know if it is a good testament.
Author:  Beardown [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
I agree. It is quite something. It's pointless but Reinsdorf really does create and encourage this culture.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Was he asked a question?
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
The writers know Ozzie, and they know if they ask about the Cubs, more often then not they're gonna get a great quote/soundbyte from him.

So your question should be, why are the sports jounalists in this town asking the Sox manager about the Cubs?

And the answer, because the Sox manager always has been and always will be brutally honest.
Author:  RodeoVann [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Quote:
The writers know Ozzie, and they know if they ask about the Cubs, more often then not they're gonna get a great quote/soundbyte from him.

So your question should be, why are the sports jounalists in this town asking the Sox manager about the Cubs?

And the answer, because the Sox manager always has been and always will be brutally honest.


Then those writers are not doing their job, ask him about the bad bullpen, the bad road record, why danks has been bad, not about a team that has 0% impact on his team at this time. I agree frank, ozzie will answer it, but whoever keeps baiting him is a worthless writer. Also, dont confuse honesty with jealousy :wink:
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
I highly doubt Ozzie is jealous of the Cubs. He may be jealous of the press they get, but not of the team itself. As dominant as the Cubs have been for most of this season, Ozzie still has 2 rings as a coach; one of those with the team the beat the Cubs in '03, and one with the Sox. He has no reason to be jealous of the Cubs at this point.
Author:  RodeoVann [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Quote:
I highly doubt Ozzie is jealous of the Cubs.


I thinks its very clear that he is jealous of the attention they get. How many times has he mentioned it this year?
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
I think you need to reread my post. I said he is jealous of the press coverage, not the team.
Author:  RodeoVann [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
I missed it frank, but I agree with you.
Author:  Brian's Mojito [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
good dolphin wrote:
It is part of the organizational identity.

I really have never seen a baseball organization that has such strong group think as the white sox. Everyone bash mariotti. Everyone blame the umpires. Everyone feel inferior to the cubs.

It is a testament to Reinsdorf. I don't know if it is a good testament.


One of these three is not like the other. Don't lump Mariotti into this group. He went out of his way in columns to bash Ozzie and Jerry. I don't remember umpires or the North Siders doing things like this.
Author:  City of Fools [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
beat me to it...
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Brian's Mojito wrote:
I don't remember umpires... doing things like this.



Hawk would have us all believe differently :P
Author:  SHARK [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I highly doubt Ozzie is jealous of the Cubs. He may be jealous of the press they get, but not of the team itself. As dominant as the Cubs have been for most of this season, Ozzie still has 2 rings as a coach; one of those with the team the beat the Cubs in '03, and one with the Sox. He has no reason to be jealous of the Cubs at this point.

Frank, I absolutely agree with you about Ozzie & the Cubs. I think he's very envious of all the Cubs coverage, both locally & nationally. I'm also convinced that the World Series title the White Sox brought home to Chicago in 2005 will go down among the most disrespected title teams of all time...Just wait until the Cubs bring home the World Series title and Mt. Guillen will absolutely erupt!
Author:  enigma [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
I always got the feeling that Joe Cowley, the bright one's Sox beat reporter, was sort of a Sox meatball fan parading around as a journalist.

It's not surprising to me that the column that started this thread was a column from Cowley.
Author:  Necroscope [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
These kind of posts are just fodder for the ensuing flame wars. At some point you just have to look at these things, laugh, shake your head, and walk away.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
SHARK wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I highly doubt Ozzie is jealous of the Cubs. He may be jealous of the press they get, but not of the team itself. As dominant as the Cubs have been for most of this season, Ozzie still has 2 rings as a coach; one of those with the team the beat the Cubs in '03, and one with the Sox. He has no reason to be jealous of the Cubs at this point.

Frank, I absolutely agree with you about Ozzie & the Cubs. I think he's very envious of all the Cubs coverage, both locally & nationally. I'm also convinced that the World Series title the White Sox brought home to Chicago in 2005 will go down among the most disrespected title teams of all time...Just wait until the Cubs bring home the World Series title and Mt. Guillen will absolutely erupt!

Ozzie has to realize that the Cubs are getting more press because they are the superior and more popular team in this town. I think he just says these things to try to fire up his players. To try to appeal to their own sense of pride-put a chip on their shoulders.
Author:  City of Fools [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
dude...stay in the Cubs section if you're gonna post this stuff...superior?
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Meatball response to Meatball steve;

1908 does not equal superior. Not in the least.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Yes, SUPERIOR, as in 31 games over .500 at 91-58, just 1 game back from the Angels for the best record in all the Major leagues, vs 84-66, just 18 games over .500 . Superior as in a .279 team batting average VS a .266 team average. Superior as in a 3.80 ERA VS a 3.96 ERA. Yes, superior. It wasn't meant as a shot, as much as a statement of fact. Even Sox fans who hate the Cubs, accept that that statement is true. And I will post wherever and whenever I feel like it. Thank you very little.
Author:  City of Fools [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
you do what ya gotta do...let me say one thing, however. The AL is better than the NL. Lilly comes over from the Jays, a mediocre pitcher career wise in the AL, and becomes a second/third starter. Rich Harden comes over from the AL and is striking everyone out using two pitches. The AL is the tougher league, so you can't just compare numbers and records. And I'm a Cubs fan, fyi.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Lilly won 15 games with Toronto before coming to the Cubs, where he also won 15 games, as he now has again this season. Harden was 5-1 with a 2.34 ERA with Oakland, before coming to the Cubs, where he is also 5-1 with a 1.65 ERA. The numbers for both pitchers are awfully similar in the two leagues.
Author:  City of Fools [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Lilly was a .500 pitcher until ONE year with the Jays where he won 15 games. One would rightly deduce that it should have been his career performance, but he was statistically far better the next year in the NL, even though he won the same number of games. And as for Harden, I'd say a run difference in ERA is pretty big, even though his record is the same. A record is not a great indicator of much, but ERA is.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
COF is 2 for 2 here. Though in fairness, he did get some meatball pitches from steve. But he put a good swing on them and didn't miss.
Author:  Darkside [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
City of Fools wrote:
Lilly was a .500 pitcher until ONE year with the Jays where he won 15 games. One would rightly deduce that it should have been his career performance, but he was statistically far better the next year in the NL, even though he won the same number of games. And as for Harden, I'd say a run difference in ERA is pretty big, even though his record is the same. A record is not a great indicator of much, but ERA is.

And do they Jays have the offense that the Cubs have?
No.
Number of wins has more variables than just the pitcher and the competition. there's also the REST OF THE TEAM.
Author:  Darkside [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Frank Coztansa wrote:
COF is 2 for 2 here. Though in fairness, he did get some meatball pitches from steve. But he put a good swing on them and didn't miss.

No, he missed on Lilly. You're just gonna holler about anyone that goes after Steve without putting any thought into it.
Like I said, wins are dependant on your offense and bullpen. The Cubs have better players than the Jays did and thus the stats being better in Chicago is expected given the run differential the teams have.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
His point was that W's and L's don't always measure how good or bad a pitcher is, but rather ERA is a much better measure. He is right. In 2002, he had a 3.69 ERA in 22 starts. Every other year in the AL, his ERA was mid 4s and a few times over 5. His starts are far better the last 2 years in the NL over every one of his years in the AL.
Author:  stoneroses86 [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Yes, SUPERIOR, as in 31 games over .500 at 91-58.


Yes, superior as in 6 wins, 9 losses against actual Major League (read: American League) Clubs. Therefore, if one excludes the 15 Interleague games played at a stellar .400 clip, the Cubs are actually 85 wins, 49 losses against AAA affiliates. Oh, by the way, the Cubs played Toronto, one of only two American League clubs with a losing record in Interleague play.

Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Superior as in a 3.80 ERA VS a 3.96 ERA. .


Yes, superior as in 74 earned runs allowed in 15 Interleague games. Why, that averages out to 4.93 earned runs per game! Of course, since they lost 7 road games in which the American League club did not need to bat in the 9th inning, they gave up those 74 earned runs in only 128 innings pitched. By my math, that is a stellar 5.20 ERA, almost 1 1/2 runs higher than their overall Earned Run Average! (which, of course, factors in the American League games. We can, therefore, deduce that their ERA against the AAA affiliates is actually lower than the above referenced 3.80 ERA)

The Cubs may very well end the wait in 2008. I would not, however, make any significant wager as to same.
Author:  good dolphin [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
I can tell these playoffs are going to be fun around here.
Author:  City of Fools [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In Sox biz for One quetion;)
darkside, are you honestly telling me that the NL is an equally tough pitching league as the AL...have you seen Sabathia? His transition may conincide with the Cy Young!! He was doing nothing with Cleveland, and now he's nearly unhittable. And Lilly would be .500 for the Angels, or any other AL team. Steve will likely come in with his Micah Owings or Zambrano argument, but the DH makes the AL a much tougher pitching environment.
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