bigfan wrote:
Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking
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| Vazquez: He Gone? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=27038 |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Vazquez: He Gone? |
Sources: Braves near deal for ChiSox's Vazquez by Ken Rosenthal Updated: December 2, 2008, 6:05 PM EST The Braves, moving to address their starting pitching needs, have reached an agreement with the White Sox on a trade for right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to major-league sources. The deal is contingent on the players involved passing physicals. An official announcement could come tomorrow or Thursday, sources said. The White Sox will receive as many three players in return. Infielder Brent Lillibridge is expected to be in the deal, along with a young starting pitcher. Left-hander Jo-Jo Reyes was among the pitchers under discussion, but is not in the trade, sources said. The deal would fulfill the Braves' desire to add front-line starting pitching while continuing the White Sox's quest to get younger and more athletic while reducing their payroll. The Braves entered the off-season intending to acquire two quality starters. When their quest to acquire Padres right-hander Jake Peavy stalled, they shifted their attention to other trades and made free- agent right-hander A.J. Burnett a top priority. Vazquez, 32, went 12-16 with a 4.67 ERA for the White Sox last season. He isn't a top-of-the-rotation starter, but his stuff remains above- average and he could benefit from a move to the National League. He has pitched 200 or more innings in eight of the last nine seasons, the exception being 2004, when he worked 198. For the White Sox, the trade of Vazquez will mark their second major move of the off-season. They earlier sent first baseman/outfielder Nick Swisher and a minor league pitcher to the Yankees for infielder Wilson Betemit and two minor-league pitchers, and continue to discuss trades for outfielder Jermaine Dye. Vazquez is under contract for $11.5 million next season and $11.5 million in 2010. His limited no-trade clause blocks deals only to teams in the NL West and AL West, and he likely would welcome a trade to Atlanta, one of the closest major-league cities to his native Puerto Rico |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Gammons says Vazquez and Booner for Reyes, Lillibridge and another prospect. I'll wait to find out who the other prospect is before I comment. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3740201 |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
No problem with this move if it stands. Javy did absolutely nothing in September or October to help his team win. |
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| Author: | BD [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Sox get Tyler Flowers (C), Brent Lillbridge (SS, who has seen some CF) and an unknown pitcher (not Reyes) for Vazquez/Logan * Lillbridge: One of the key components of the Adam LaRoche to Pittsburgh deal in early 2007 was shortstop Brent Lillibridge, who came over to the Braves along with Mike Gonzalez. Lillibridge, who had a decent shot of making the Braves as a utility player this spring, was one of the team's final cuts and will start the year in Richmond. Lillibridge's instincts have always drawn raves and he's matured quickly. Many would argue he's Major League ready now. But for the foreseeable future he's blocked by Yunel Escobar, himself a newly appointed starter. Lillibridge managed a .400 OBP during two Class-A stops in 2006. In 2007 he hit 10 homers in 87 games at Triple-A Richmond and projects as a 15-20 HR guy in the bigs. He's got good, but not blazing speed. Yet in 309 minor league games he's swiped 105 bases, including 28 with an 85% success rate in Richmond. It's the instincts, man. However, with Escobar's fantastic close to the 2007 season there was little doubt who the Braves starting shortstop would be going into 2008. Lillibridge had a shot to make the team as a utility player, and in early March was even given a surprise start at third by manager Bobby Cox despite not having played the position since the 2004 Cape Cod summer league. "He can play, man," said Cox after the game when questioned about the move. Lillibridge also saw time at second and in center (where he spent two seasons in college) during the spring. The reason he didn't head north with the team this year was partly because he hit just .224 this spring (and led the team with 18 whiffs), but also because the team would like to get him regular at bats, something that wouldn't happen if he'd made the team as a bench player. At the very least a late season callup seems in order, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that he'd get some starts in center should Mark Kotsay's back flare up. You get the feeling Cox would like to find a place for Lillibridge. His name often surfaces in trade talks, but that probably has more to do with other GMs coveting him than any willingness to deal on the part of the Braves. Still, it's fun to think about what an "intangibles" kind of player like Lillibridge might fetch. He could end up being a key piece to the Braves getting a top player for the stretch run. 6. Brent Lillibridge, ss Born: Sept. 18, 1983 • B-T: R-R • Ht: 5-11 • Wt: 180 Drafted: Washington, 2005 (4th round) • Signed by: Greg Hopkins (Pirates) Brent LillibridgeBackground: Acquired from Pittsburgh in the deal that sent Adam LaRoche to the Pirates last offseason, Lillibridge served as a catalyst on Richmond's International League championship club. He led the system with 42 steals and posted a hit in each of his nine playoff games. R-Braves manager Dave Brundage said Lillibridge improved more over the course of the season than any player on his club. Strengths: Lillibridge has the tools to hit leadoff, plus the range and arm strength to play shortstop in the major leagues. His hands work well at the plate and he's adept at using the entire field. He also drives the ball well for a player his size. With above-average speed and savvy, he has succeeded in 79 percent of his pro steal attempts. Weaknesses: Lillibridge thinks of himself as a middle-of-the-lineup hitter too often. He needs to reduce his strikeouts by shortening his swing and controlling the zone better. He also needs to upgrade his bunting ability and become more of a small-ball player. He doesn't always deal with failure well, though he's doing better as he matures. The Future: Once Lillibridge plays to his strengths he'll be ready to contribute at the major league level. He'll open 2008 in Triple-A. How much will Tyler Flowers' strong Arizona Fall League showing move him up in Baseball America's Braves rankings? He hit .387 and led the AFL with 12 homers and a .975 slugging percentage. He has a large frame and looks like he could make a seamless transition to first base. What are the odds that he eventually makes that move, given that Atlanta already has Brian McCann at catcher? Charles Caswell Knoxville Unlike baseball's major awards, our prospect ratings aren't finalized at the end of the regular season. We do take winter ball and other offseason happenings into account, though be careful not to read too much into AFL stats. Last fall's breakout hitter and slugging percentage leader was the Cubs' Sam Fuld, who looks like an extra outfielder and not a regular, let alone a star. That's not the case with Flowers, of course. His power and strike-zone discipline were evident when he was hitting .288/.427/.494 at high Class A Myrtle Beach, and he already was one of Atlanta's best prospects, so his AFL performance won't rocket him up our list. Flowers still has a lot of work to do in all facets of catching, and he may never be McCann's equal as a defender. You never know how things will play out, so for now the Braves will keep him behind the plate, where he has the most value. If McCann remains entrenched once Flowers is ready for the majors, Flowers then could move to first base, though Casey Kotchman could provide an obstacle there. It would be a stretch to play Flowers on an outfield corner. * Flowers Mike (San Diego): Hey Keith, who is this Tyler Flowers guy? He is raking in the AFL. SportsNation Keith Law: Catcher, OK behind the plate, great eye/plate discipline, average power. Bat speed's a little slow so I'm not sure he's a big average hitter, but at that position? He's a top 100 prospect, or sure. And I bet that the Padres are all over him. Jonathan (Tampa, FL): How good is Tyler Flowers? Is he as good as his AFL stats say? 10 HR and close to a .400 AVG? SportsNation Keith Law: He's not a .400/.500/.650 guy in the majors. Of this I am certain. But he's a pretty good prospect - can catch, not great back there, gets on base, has big raw power. At least a solid average regular. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
So, Kenny gearing to make another trade or move Gordon Beckham to a different position? |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking |
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| Author: | spanky [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
bigfan wrote: Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
bigfan wrote: Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking Wait till after Kenny signs CC. |
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| Author: | spanky [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Keyser Soze wrote: bigfan wrote: Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking Wait till after Kenny signs CC.          
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Keyser Soze wrote: Wait till after Kenny signs CC. Now that would be something. |
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| Author: | Baby McNown [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Wait.... I thought Alexi was your shortstop now. What did you need another SS prospect for? I'm so confused......
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
This guy is saying the Sox are getting 4 players. This deal just keeps getting better and better. Maybe by tomorrow Yunel Escobar will be a Sox. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... Id=rss_mlb |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
As of 5 minutes ago Peter Gammons stated they are still working on the 4 players, but regardless, Kenny did tell Vazquez he was traded to the Braves. Right now that is technically giving away something for nothing. I would think Kenny would be happy just to get rid of the $11 M a year and he does not care who he gets back |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
ESPN Radio 1000's Bruce Levine says that Javy Vazquez & Boone Logan are headed to the Braves in what's being described as a 5 player deal... |
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| Author: | Jim DeRevolting [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Allelujia!!!! Vazquez is hasta la bye bye This is merely setting the tone for the remainder of this offseason. Swish, Cabrera and Vasquez gone.... Garland headed back? Hmm... |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Jim DeRevolting wrote: Allelujia!!!! Vazquez is hasta la bye bye This is merely setting the tone for the remainder of this offseason. Swish, Cabrera and Vasquez gone.... Garland headed back? Hmm... Jon Garland coming back? As "Hawk" might say..."No..." |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Big Fan, salary dumps of bad players is a good thing. Don't you get that? We always have to remind you, Big Fan. Sox were a top 5 pay roll last year. Slightly higher than the cubs last year. Kenny took a shot on some Braves prospects. But it also frees up money to do other things. Yes, the Sox have a budget. Get rid of Javy and use that money some where else. What's wrong with that? |
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| Author: | Chris_in_joliet [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Keyser Soze wrote: bigfan wrote: Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking Wait till after Kenny signs CC. The only CC kenny would sign would be CCH Pounder 
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| Author: | bwfalcon [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Frank Coztansa wrote: So, Kenny gearing to make another trade or move Gordon Beckham to a different position? Why not try Lillbridge in CF then. He seems to be able to steal a base. |
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| Author: | bwfalcon [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
BD wrote: Weaknesses: He also needs to upgrade his bunting ability and become more of a small-ball player. He sounds like a natural fit for the Sox here. |
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| Author: | BD [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Frank Coztansa wrote: So, Kenny gearing to make another trade or move Gordon Beckham to a different position? I think he's going to be 2B in the majors. |
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| Author: | BD [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Jim DeRevolting wrote: Allelujia!!!! Vazquez is hasta la bye bye This is merely setting the tone for the remainder of this offseason. Swish, Cabrera and Vasquez gone.... Garland headed back? Hmm... I thought I had read Garland was likely to accep arbitration from the Angels. |
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| Author: | BD [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
SHARK wrote: Jim DeRevolting wrote: Allelujia!!!! Vazquez is hasta la bye bye This is merely setting the tone for the remainder of this offseason. Swish, Cabrera and Vasquez gone.... Garland headed back? Hmm... Jon Garland coming back? As "Hawk" might say..."No..." If he did come back, and I think it's unlikely, as long as it's a 2-3 year deal, we're getting a guy with a track record of 200 IP as our #4 starter. I could live with that. |
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| Author: | spanky [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Beardown wrote: Big Fan, salary dumps of bad players is a good thing. Don't you get that? 200+ innings and 200 K's - I'd be careful what you wish for. He just didn't bow to the throne of Ozzie, so he had to go. At this point, salary dump.......but probably leading to another move I would think. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
bigfan wrote: Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking Sure you are. As a Cub fan we expect thoughtless opinion. Now the way I see it, KW just secured 2B or CF next year with a guy who can possibly bat leadoff and who will steal 20 bases. He also has set himself up for a young, talented and multi skilled infield for the very near future. It would not be a stretch to have Viciedo, Beckham, Flowers, and Lillibridge ALL pushing for starting roles by 2010. Salary has been decreased from last year by 35-40 million right now. However, this is hardly a dump. They will find a FA pitcher who they like better than Vazquez for similar money (unlike others, I would have had no problem with Vazquez coming back). |
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| Author: | Darkside [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
good dolphin wrote: Now the way I see it, KW just secured 2B or CF next year with a guy who can possibly bat leadoff and who will steal 20 bases.. Y'all dealt for Soriano? |
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| Author: | BD [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
spanky wrote: Beardown wrote: Big Fan, salary dumps of bad players is a good thing. Don't you get that? 200+ innings and 200 K's - I'd be careful what you wish for. He just didn't bow to the throne of Ozzie, so he had to go. At this point, salary dump.......but probably leading to another move I would think. Ozzie didn't like him because he melted down in big games. He's got some plus's, but his 4.50 ERA is not one of them. |
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| Author: | hawkeye [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
Any deal that gets us that many Braves prospects is a good one in my book with their track record of quality coming up from their system. I also wouldn't have minded keeping Vasquez as I've always been a fan of his but don't mind them clearing some payroll for a better pitcher. I know he was a frustrating pitcher to watch but as a #5 starter, he is good and I never understood all the hating on him in that roll. Similar to how the Cub fans rail on Marquis all the time (unwarranted IMO) but I think Vasquez is much better as a #5. |
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| Author: | BD [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
good dolphin wrote: bigfan wrote: Am I allowed to call this a Salary Dump? Just checking Sure you are. As a Cub fan we expect thoughtless opinion. Now the way I see it, KW just secured 2B or CF next year with a guy who can possibly bat leadoff and who will steal 20 bases. He also has set himself up for a young, talented and multi skilled infield for the very near future. It would not be a stretch to have Viciedo, Beckham, Flowers, and Lillibridge ALL pushing for starting roles by 2010. Salary has been decreased from last year by 35-40 million right now. However, this is hardly a dump. They will find a FA pitcher who they like better than Vazquez for similar money (unlike others, I would have had no problem with Vazquez coming back). They are still going to move Dye as well so we're looking at close to $50 million in the team payroll. Williams has already stated that we will have a decrease in payroll, so let's say they cut it by $25 million. That means we still have, assuming Dye is traded, about $20-$25 million to make other moves with. |
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| Author: | BD [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vazquez: He Gone? |
hawkeye wrote: Any deal that gets us that many Braves prospects is a good one in my book with their track record of quality coming up from their system. I also wouldn't have minded keeping Vasquez as I've always been a fan of his but don't mind them clearing some payroll for a better pitcher. I know he was a frustrating pitcher to watch but as a #5 starter, he is good and I never understood all the hating on him in that roll. Similar to how the Cub fans rail on Marquis all the time (unwarranted IMO) but I think Vasquez is much better as a #5. From the reports I have read, they did pretty good in getting these guys from Atlanta. |
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