Chicago Fanatics Message Board
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/

Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=30836		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  kujoe_7 [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Ozzie Guillen said Monday that the White Sox's center field competition between Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens and DeWayne Wise "has been real disappointing so far."
"They have played better the last few weeks, but I expect more from them," Guillen said. Guillen said Sunday that Anderson was on the Opening Day roster as of now, but did not commit to him as the starter. General manager Kenny Williams has begun exploring trade options, but the team does not believe that the Dodgers' ousted center fielder Juan Pierre could help them.
Source: Chicago Sun-Times

why not put alexi out there and have Gordon Beckham at short and getz play 2nd ???
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Brian Anderson is the only CF on that team. And like last year, he is tearing the cover off the ball in ST.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
I don't know why Anderson is being penalized because he can't hit leadoff. Maybe Kenny should have constructed his team better and not relied so much on Owens and Wise. Neither has ever proven they are major league players and that trend is continuing with their awfull spring trainings.
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Keyser Soze wrote:
I don't know why Anderson is being penalized because he can't hit leadoff.


He's not penalized cause he can't hit lead off.
He can't hit 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th either.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mustang Rob wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
I don't know why Anderson is being penalized because he can't hit leadoff.


He's not penalized cause he can't hit lead off.
He can't hit 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th either.


I disagree.
Author:  Mr. Reason [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
I would think Anderson can easily make up for lack of offense with his stellar defense. I think the Sox will score enough runs.
This Sox team can use all the defensive help it can get in the outfield. They need Anderson to pick up the slack for an average left fielder and a below average right fielder.
With Anderson out there maybe Dye is less likely to play those singles into doubles and triples.
I don't undedrstand why they don't just put him out there for a half season with no pressure and let him play baseball. He may surprise everyone and be more than adequate at the plate.
Author:  SHARK [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Keyser Soze wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
I don't know why Anderson is being penalized because he can't hit leadoff.


He's not penalized cause he can't hit lead off.
He can't hit 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th either.


I disagree.

Guys, Brian Anderson is a one-dimensional ballplayer, and Ozzie doesn't want automatic outs in his lineup. He can field, but #32 sucks as a hitter, pure & simple.
Author:  Mr. Belvidere [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Bat him 9th, let him hit .230 and let him defend offense instead of create it.

He'll hit 10 to 15 HR's and he will move runners. I dont see the down side.
Author:  SHARK [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mr. Belvidere wrote:
Bat him 9th, let him hit .230 and let him defend offense instead of create it.

He'll hit 10 to 15 HR's and he will move runners. I dont see the down side.

Mr. Belvidere, who's gonna lead off? George Owens? :lol: :lol: I don't think Ozzie wants to put #17 Chris Getz, Southfield, MI, in the lead-off spot...If I was filling out the lineup card, Alexei Ramirez, complete with his speed, and the fact he had a high on-base percentage in limited at-bats in the leadoff spot, would be leading off...
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mr Reason is a wise man.

SHARK wrote:
Ozzie doesn't want automatic outs in his lineup.

Oh yeah? He seemed to have no problem putting Uribe and Toby Hall in the lineup from time to time.

Brian Anderson is never going to win a batting title, but give him 450 at bats, and he would be able to muster a .250 avg, and he'd hit probably hit 15 or 20 HRs too. Ozzie needs to realize that its not May of 2006 anymore. The Sox defense needs all the help it can get, and Anderson did a stellar job last season in very limited playing time. If nothing else, he has earned the everyday CF job and if he sucks, then you replace him. I will take Anderson in center 8 days a week over Wise and Owens.
Author:  SHARK [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mr Reason is a wise man.

SHARK wrote:
Ozzie doesn't want automatic outs in his lineup.

Oh yeah? He seemed to have no problem putting Uribe and Toby Hall in the lineup from time to time.

Brian Anderson is never going to win a batting title, but give him 450 at bats, and he would be able to muster a .250 avg, and he'd hit probably hit 15 or 20 HRs too. Ozzie needs to realize that its not May of 2006 anymore. The Sox defense needs all the help it can get, and Anderson did a stellar job last season in very limited playing time. If nothing else, he has earned the everyday CF job and if he sucks, then you replace him. I will take Anderson in center 8 days a week over Wise and Owens.

Frank, Ozzie can be awfully stubborn...Why do you think he put Ken Griffey Jr. in center along with Rob Mackowiak ahead of Anderson? He lacks confidence in Anderson as an everyday centerfielder. That's the painful truth.
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Keyser Soze wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
I don't know why Anderson is being penalized because he can't hit leadoff.


He's not penalized cause he can't hit lead off.
He can't hit 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th either.


I disagree.


Anderson can't hit and he can't run the bases.
Plain and simple. The eye test doesn't lie.
He can play defense which makes him about as useful as Paul Bako.
If he makes a major league roster it's only as a 5th outfielder.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Your eyes apparently do lie. Just a couple days ago you insinuated that Alfonso Soriano was at least equal to Alexi Ramirez in terms of thier defensive skills.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Your eyes apparently do lie. Just a couple days ago you insinuated that Alfonso Soriano was at least equal to Alexi Ramirez in terms of thier defensive skills.

who weighs more? they both way about 120 right?
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Your eyes apparently do lie. Just a couple days ago you insinuated that Alfonso Soriano was at least equal to Alexi Ramirez in terms of thier defensive skills.


Dude,
Anderson can not hit.
He's had 4 seasons to show anything and hasn't been able to.
He fucking IMPROVED up to .230 last year - how pathetic does that sentence read?

At least Owens put together a decent half when he was given the chance, but he has a noodle for an arm and his speed doesn't translate to defense, much like Anderson's defensive speed doesn't translate to the basepaths.

When the idea of Alexei batting lead off was brought up, I said he is the southside version of Soriano, which greatly offended your baseball sensibilities.
All I said is that after one season in the majors, Alexei IS a below average defensive second baseman with good pop and poor strike zone discipline resulting in low OBP, which is exactly what Soriano was at a similar point of his development.

Soriano never improved defensively nor did he learn to take a walk. Alexei might improve in either or both areas or he might not, so unless you've seen the future you can't comment.

All I know is that I'll be thrilled if Alexei puts up 80% of Sorianos offense while playing average defensive shortstop this season.

Anyway, with 2B, CF, 3B, and 4th & 5th starters all being huge question marks, Alexei is the least of the Sox problems, but don't forgeet that the last time the Sox tried to infus youth into their line up, you ended up with Richar & Owens, and the results were less than thrilling.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mustang Rob wrote:
Anderson can't hit and he can't run the bases.
Plain and simple. The eye test doesn't lie.
He can play defense which makes him about as useful as Paul Bako.
If he makes a major league roster it's only as a 5th outfielder.


When you were arguing Alexei's defense you were a stat man, now you're an eye test man? Well, here's a stat for you. Anderson's EQBRR (equivilent baserunning runs) was 2.0364. That ranked him 75th out of 858 players rated. Not bad for a guy that can't run the bases.
Author:  good dolphin [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
If Getz shows he can lead off, this discussion is ultimately about the 9th place hitter in a fairly strong lineup.
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Keyser Soze wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Anderson can't hit and he can't run the bases.
Plain and simple. The eye test doesn't lie.
He can play defense which makes him about as useful as Paul Bako.
If he makes a major league roster it's only as a 5th outfielder.


When you were arguing Alexei's defense you were a stat man, now you're an eye test man? Well, here's a stat for you. Anderson's EQBRR (equivilent baserunning runs) was 2.0364. That ranked him 75th out of 858 players rated. Not bad for a guy that can't run the bases.


Now I'm a convert.
Put Anderson's .277 OBP & 10 Steals in 18 attempts at leadoff and enjoy the season Sox fans.
I just can't understand how the same people who bitched for 2 years about Uribe, can't recognize the same shortcomings in Anderson.
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
good dolphin wrote:
If Getz shows he can lead off, this discussion is ultimately about the 9th place hitter in a fairly strong lineup.


Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.
Who's the automatic out in the Yankee, Red Sox, Rays, Angels, Indians, Twins, Tigers line up?
Those are the teams you are competing with, so you better make sure you're not giving them any advantages.
Author:  Hatchetman [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mustang Rob wrote:
Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.


That may be your goal, but it is not the goal of the organization. Their goal is to make money.
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Hatchetman wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.


That may be your goal, but it is not the goal of the organization. Their goal is to make money.

true, but last I checked, all the playoff gmaes were a sellout in '05.
Author:  WestmontMike [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
I have no problem with Anderson in CF. Batting him in the leadoff slot is idiotic and would be Ozzie's way of "exposing" Anderson even though we all know he's not that good at the plate. It would put unnecessary pressure on him and put him in the spotlight and he'll get hammered because he'd fail. Maybe that's what Ozzie wants. If he doesn't like Anderson, then this would be an easy way to get the public/media to bash him. There's no reason to put your worst hitter in the first spot in your order.
I'd hit him 8th or 9th and be happy with the upgrade to the defense. I know exactly what I'll see at the plate from him, nothing....and I don't care. One thing this team isn't desperate for is more run production. If he miraculously turns around his career and ends up resembling a major league hitter that'll just be a bonus, but it doesn't matter.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mustang Rob wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
If Getz shows he can lead off, this discussion is ultimately about the 9th place hitter in a fairly strong lineup.


Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.
Who's the automatic out in the Yankee, Red Sox, Rays, Angels, Indians, Twins, Tigers line up?
Those are the teams you are competing with, so you better make sure you're not giving them any advantages.


Yankees- Brett Gardner/Melky Cabrera
Red Sox- Jason Varitek
Rays- ??
Angels- ??
Indians- Asdrubal Cabrera
Twins- Nick Punto (unless he's playing the Sox)
Tigers- Adam Everett

There are teams sacrificing some offense for defense. No one is asking Anderson to be an MVP candidate.
Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
First let me state for the record that I would like to see Brian Anderson starting in CF. That said, I am not in complete agreement with those who are saying that the Sox lineup is strong enough to carry his weak bat. The projected starters consist of rapidly aging veterans and guys with very short major league resumes. IMO, there too many question marks for me to feel confident...I hope I'm wrong.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mustang Rob wrote:
Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.

So NL teams more or less give up 10 or 11% of at bats with the pitcher hitting, and they win a WS from time to time...
Author:  WestmontMike [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.

So NL teams more or less give up 10 or 11% of at bats with the pitcher hitting, and they win a WS from time to time...


pwned
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Keyser Soze wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
If Getz shows he can lead off, this discussion is ultimately about the 9th place hitter in a fairly strong lineup.


Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.
Who's the automatic out in the Yankee, Red Sox, Rays, Angels, Indians, Twins, Tigers line up?
Those are the teams you are competing with, so you better make sure you're not giving them any advantages.


Yankees- Brett Gardner/Melky Cabrera
Red Sox- Jason Varitek
Rays- ??
Angels- ??
Indians- Asdrubal Cabrera
Twins- Nick Punto (unless he's playing the Sox)
Tigers- Adam Everett

There are teams sacrificing some offense for defense. No one is asking Anderson to be an MVP candidate.


Sounds like Gardner won the Yanks CF job and Melky is on the block drawing interest from the Sox (per Rosenthal). Either is better than BA/Owens/Wise crapfest.
Tek was an automatic out last year from the left side, but still had a higher OBP than AJ :shock:
Cabrera would be the Sox starting 2B hands down, as would Punto. Either would be a better leadoff option. The Sox hope than Getz can develop into a Punto.

Everett can't hit, and like Anderson probably shouldn't be on a MLB roster.

Frank, I'd take Zombrano's bat over BA anyday.

I've said before just how much I dislike NL brand of baseball for that very reason. Between the light hitting infielder/catcher and the pitcher AB's, 20% of the AB's are a must miss.
As for the WS argument, the NL teams win despite their obvious offensive handicap. If you prefer this brand of baseball you should be arguing that the Sox should bat their Pitchers in the DH spot.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Mustang Rob wrote:
Frank, I'd take Zombrano's bat over BA anyday.

You want Z for 400-500 at bats, take it.
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
WestmontMike wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Yes it is, but if your goal is to win the World Series, you can't afford to have 11% of your AB's be an automatic out.

So NL teams more or less give up 10 or 11% of at bats with the pitcher hitting, and they win a WS from time to time...


pwned


Insightful as usual Mike.
Thanks for the contribute :?
Author:  Mustang Rob [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ozzie says we have no centerfeilders
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Frank, I'd take Zombrano's bat over BA anyday.

You want Z for 400-500 at bats, take it.


For his career Z has 494 ab's with a 239avg. 16 HR & 47 RBI.
If he played the field on a daily basis he'd make Ankiel's numbers look like Eckstein's.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/