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Some have called it the best pitching performance in Chicago baseball history. But is it? Perfect game with amazing catch in 9th inning to rob home run vs. rookie strikes out 20, hits Biggio and gives up infield hit. Which is it?

Mini Ditka wrote:

I have to go with Wood being more impressive on his own pitching performance. Buehrle needed his fielders more than Wood did that day. FROM A PITCHING ONLY standpoint I go with Wood. That being said I would rather have the perfect game.

i also wanted to say: the fact that again this comes down to a cubs/sox thing is really pitiful. they were both great achievements for their respective teams. why didn't anyone start a thread of zambrano's no hitter vs. wood's 20k performance? that's a rhetorical question.

Randy Johnson had a game with the M's where he struck out 19 Oakland A's, and took the loss. So I suppose thats better than a perfect game or a no-no, right? :roll:

I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter.

I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot.

Wood was a power pitcher who relied on Ks. Buehrle relies on location and guy putting the ball in play. The fact that 21 of the outs in that game he had to rely on at least one other fielder is exactly why a perfect game is better than a 20K game.

Randy Johnson had a game with the M's where he struck out 19 Oakland A's, and took the loss. So I suppose thats better than a perfect game or a no-no, right? :roll:

I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter.

Frank Coztansa wrote:

I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter.

So you dont believe there is a difference between the pitching performance and the result? All Im saying is the result of a perfect game is much better than the 20ks, but in terms of actual pitching? As I said, both took very different routes, but both mastered their position for nine innings.

I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter.

Author:	Mini Ditka [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:39 am ]
Post subject:	Buehrle vs. Wood
Some have called it the best pitching performance in Chicago baseball history. But is it? Perfect game with amazing catch in 9th inning to rob home run vs. rookie strikes out 20, hits Biggio and gives up infield hit. Which is it?

Author:	Colonel Angus [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Even as a Wood fan I'd have to say the perfect game. The catch Wise made was phenomenal and saved the perfect game for Buerhle, but that's why baseball is a team sport.

Author:	lipidquadcab [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Perfect Game > 20Ks

Author:	Aggravated Sox Fan Bob [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
I am a Sox fan and the 20ks tops the perfect game. Not close....how many 20 k games have been pitched?

Author:	bigfan [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Uh oh ! 20K's and 1 hit No walks is a better performance then 0 hits and 6 K's And SOX FAN Bob agrees! YES! HELL YES!!! And I don't know who got the hit, but I am willing to say it was less of a shot than the one the Wise caught.

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Buehrle vs. Wood https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35238	Page 1 of 5

Author:	RFDC [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
They are both great and very rare performances. If I had to pick I would take Wood's.

Author:	Keyser Soze [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Wood's performance was awesome but nothing beats perfection.

Author:	Puckhead [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Stats-wise, yes, Buehrle's perfect game is better. Performance-wise? They are about equal. Figure this. Buehrle was getting consistent outs to his infielders, which means he was making a lot of guys hit his pitch. Thats pretty damned good mastery. Wood, he made a lot of very good hitters look really bad. You just saw the look on guys faces as the ball would disappear on them or start out three feet from the strikezone, then break back over the plate. It was filthy. Ive never seen a guy be as good at fooling the hitters like he did. In other words, both guys were able to master their position for an entire game, just did it in a different manner.

Author:	Bucky Chris [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
20 K Games: 4 times Perfect Games: 18 times More so, the Ks are more amazing because it is almost completely and totally due to the pitcher. Perfect games are nothing short of brilliant, but they also rely heavily on the defense. Buerhle threw 6 ks during his perfect game. That should tell you how amazing 20 ks is.

Author:	W_Z [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
20k's is an individual achievement by the pitcher. a perfect game involves the defense as well. unless the perfect game includes 27 K's.

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Wood made millions off of that one start. And nothing beats perfection...nothing.

Author:	W_Z [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
i also wanted to say: the fact that again this comes down to a cubs/sox thing is really pitiful. they were both great achievements for their respective teams. why didn't anyone start a thread of zambrano's no hitter vs. wood's 20k performance? that's a rhetorical question.

Author:	Mr. Hernandez [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Wow you can't really go wrong with either. Mark is a craftsman who throws some nasty junk and was hitting his spots with precision. Wood was just overpowering and blowing people away and buckling knees as well. Whats impressive about both feats is the teams they did them against. The Rays are about 3rd in the AL in offense while Houston I believe was one of the NL's top dogs and had a great offense as well at the time

Author:	sjboyd0137 [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
If Kevin Orie doesn't mishandle the ground ball, then we are talking about 2 perfect games.

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Author:	Scorehead [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Not to take anything away from Buehrle...but I believe that Kerry Wood's 20 strikeout game was the single most dominant pitching performance in MLB history. And most people don't know that he also only gave up one hit in that game. Only 2 Pitchers have had 20 strikeouts in one game. Clemens gave up 3 hits in his 20K outing. Wood is the only Pitcher in history to pitch a 1 hitter & 20K's in a game.

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Wood was a power pitcher who relied on Ks. Buehrle relies on location and guy putting the ball in play. The fact that 21 of the outs in that game he had to rely on at least one other fielder is exactly why a perfect game is better than a 20K game. Randy Johnson had a game with the M's where he struck out 19 Oakland A's, and took the loss. So I suppose thats better than a perfect game or a no-no, right? I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter.

Author:	Chris_in_joliet [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Mini Ditka wrote: Some have called it the best pitching performance in Chicago baseball history. But is it? Perfect game with amazing catch in 9th inning to rob home run vs. rookie strikes out 20, hits Biggio and gives up infield hit. Which is it? I have to go with Wood being more impressive on his own pitching performance. Buehrle needed his fielders more than Wood did that day. FROM A PITCHING ONLY standpoint I go with Wood. That being said I would rather have the perfect game.

Author:	Walt Williams Neck [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Shit I thought you meant Wibur Wood

Author:	Bucky Chris [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Frank, why are there so many more perfect games than 20 strikeouts?

Author:	Bucky Chris [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Chris_in_joliet wrote: Mini Ditka wrote: Some have called it the best pitching performance in Chicago baseball history. But is it? Perfect game with amazing catch in 9th inning to rob home run vs. rookie strikes out 20, hits Biggio and gives up infield hit. Which is it? I have to go with Wood being more impressive on his own pitching performance. Buehrle needed his fielders more than Wood did that day. FROM A PITCHING ONLY standpoint I go with Wood. That being said I would rather have the perfect game. Agree 100%.

Author:	crosscheck [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
W_Z wrote: i also wanted to say: the fact that again this comes down to a cubs/sox thing is really pitiful. they were both great achievements for their respective teams. why didn't anyone start a thread of zambrano's no hitter vs. wood's 20k performance? that's a rhetorical question. this

Author:	Beardown [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Wood's performance was clearly more dominate. But it wasn't a perfect game. 20 strikeouts is also a great achievment. It's only happened twice, right? Clemens and Wood? If you asked me what ability I'd want going into a game right now - Wood's 20k stuff or Buehrle's perfect game stuff - I'd say Wood's stuff. I don't know how you couldn't say that. Both games might be in the top 10 of all time pitching perfomances. That Astros lineup was pretty good much like the Rays lineup. That Astros team went on to win the division that year with the Cubs getting the wild card.

Author:	W_Z [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Frank Coztansa wrote: Randy Johnson had a game with the M's where he struck out 19 Oakland A's, and took the loss. So I suppose thats better than a perfect game or a no-no, right? then he actually had a perfect game... Quote: I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter. and your justification definitely makes you the former.

Author:	Mini Ditka [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
I think Buehrle owes Wise for that catch. It was a home run. Wise just happened to be inserted into the game and he just happened to come up with the most improbable catch. I mean is there any other outfielder on the White Sox that could have come up with that ball? I don't think anybody hit a ball that far in Wood's 20 K game. Wood hit Biggio who rarely gets out of the way and the hit was an infield hit, which was arguably an error. There is nothing you can take away from Buehrle's perfect game, but to call it the greatest pitching performance in Chicago history is inaccurate.

Author:	kerchungathunk [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Frank Coztansa wrote: I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. Don't worry Frank. You can have your cake and eat it too. In this case however, you're right. Beuhrle's perfect game was a grand accomplishment for him and a larger historical accomplishment than Kerry Wood's 20K game. There shouldn't even be a discussion, yet somehow there is. Hands down, Buehrle over Wood. Both were incredible, but baseball lore is built on the perfect game, not the K total. Kerry Wood gave up only one hit that day, but there's a long list of 1 hitters and few people, outside those who were at the game(s) in question, remember the name of the pitcher who threw them. Buehrle.

Author:	Puckhead [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Frank Coztansa wrote: Wood was a power pitcher who relied on Ks. Buehrle relies on location and guy putting the ball in play. The fact that 21 of the outs in that game he had to rely on at least one other fielder is exactly why a perfect game is better than a 20K game. Randy Johnson had a game with the M's where he struck out 19 Oakland A's, and took the loss. So I suppose thats better than a perfect game or a no-no, right? I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter. So you dont believe there is a difference between the pitching performance and the result? All Im saying is the result of a perfect game is much better than the 20ks, but in terms of actual pitching? As I said, both took very different routes, but both mastered their position for nine innings.

Author:	bigfan [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Puckhead wrote: Frank Coztansa wrote: Wood was a power pitcher who relied on Ks. Buehrle relies on location and guy putting the ball in play. The fact that 21 of the outs in that game he had to rely on at least one other fielder is exactly why a perfect game is better than a 20K game. Randy Johnson had a game with the M's where he struck out 19 Oakland A's, and took the loss. So I suppose thats better than a perfect game or a no-no, right? I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter. So you dont believe there is a difference between the pitching performance and the result? All Im saying is the result of a perfect game is much better than the 20ks, but in terms of actual pitching? As I said, both took very different routes, but both mastered their position for nine innings. Pretty foolish to say the PERFECT Game is MUCH BETTER than the 20 K game The 20K game, wood only Gave up 1 hit (And that one didn't leave the park) Also, only two 20K games in the history of the game, 18 perfect games.

Author:	Mr. Reason [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Other than the first post, I haven't read any of the responses. That being said, if the Cub would have had a major league third baseman playing that day, Wood would have had a perfect game. Nobody even hit the ball hard against him, for Christ's sake. That was the most dominate game I have ever seen pitched as a baseball fan. He made a lot of real good hitters look foolish in that game.

Author:	Mr. Belvidere [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
I saw both games on TV live and there is no comparison. Kerry DOMINATED. Buehrle dealt. It pains me to admit it but its true. Astros hitters missed pitches by a foot over and over again. If they made contact they were lucky. The irony is his great stuff wrecked his arm. I guess you can say he blew his load in one shot. Buehrle is the epitomy of a pitcher closer to Maddux who never dominated. Buehrle was built for a major league career. But for one game you got to give it to Kerry WoodS.

Author:	Scorehead [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Buehrle vs. Wood
Frank Coztansa wrote: Wood was a power pitcher who relied on Ks. Buehrle relies on location and guy putting the ball in play. The fact that 21 of the outs in that game he had to rely on at least one other fielder is exactly why a perfect game is better than a 20K game. Randy Johnson had a game with the M's where he struck out 19 Oakland A's, and took the loss. So I suppose thats better than a perfect game or a no-no, right? I take a lot of shit on this board for being a meatball or whatever, but I'd rather be a meatball fan than an idiot. If you really believe a 20K game is better than a perfect game, you're the latter. Frank, thank you for helping to make my point. Since Buehrle puts the ball in play more, he relies on his fielders more to make plays. A high percentage of his outs were made by fielders. Wood did it all by himself, with only 1 hit & only a couple of balls in play. Wood could have pitched his game all by himself with the rest of his team sitting on the bench!