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| Finger pointin' time! https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36408 |
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| Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Finger pointin' time! |
Who is responsible for this under achieving piece of poo? |
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| Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Well, KW did send them in to battle with Colon and Contrearas at 4 and 5 (a move Ranger and I argued about early in spring training). I think internally the Sox had this pegged as a transition year. They simply had to see what they had in Fields and Anderson as they were becoming to old to be prospects. Getz had earned a shot to prove himself at the MLB level. That left them with 3 inexperienced players all who got bunched at the bottom of the order with disasterous results. Throw in a slow start from Floyd and this team was lucky to be in the hunt at all. In a lot of ways, Ozzie has done a magical job with what he had been given. |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
things have turned out better than jerry and kenny could have expected. by staying relatively close in the race, attendance has been decent. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
The Sox have been to the playoffs once in the past four years (assuming they miss this year), and they needed 163 games and a favorable coin toss to do it. They've also generally played in one of the weakest divisions in baseball and done so with a fairly high payroll. I'm not saying KW should be fired, but they really need to make the playoffs next year for him to stay safe, don't they? |
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| Author: | Hatchetman [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Irish Boy wrote: I'm not saying KW should be fired, but they really need to make the playoffs next year for him to stay safe, don't they? KW has a lifetime contract so long as JR is alive. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
 Green is indeed the color of the irish. gd, Not to mention that Dotel and Linebrink have been horrendous. Thats not necessarily Kenny/Ozzie's fault. Players need to be held accountable and all those 2 guys do when they come into games in throw gasoline on the fire. Ozzie can only bring in whoever is down in the pen. The defense on this team is unnacceptable, and that falls squarely on the coaching staff. Errors are going to happen, but mental/fundamental mistakes are inexcusable at the big league level. Alexei Ramirez has come on as of late, but he has been a big dissapointment. Pods has been a nice spark in the lineup, but he is terrible in the field and on the bases. Earl Weaver was right about team speed... for chrissakes.. I think they figured this year to be a transition year, and that the Sox would probably hover around .500 but the fact is that they have showed they are better than a .500 team. They have played very well in big series and against good teams- Tampa, Cubs, Angels, Yankees, Dodgers. They have sucked against teams they should beat- KC, Baltimore, Oakland. They are set up with a really good starting staff for 2010, and some good players at key positions, but the bullpen, baserunning, and defense all need a LOT of work. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Irish Boy wrote: The Sox have been to the playoffs once in the past four years (assuming they miss this year), and they needed 163 games and a favorable coin toss to do it. They've also generally played in one of the weakest divisions in baseball and done so with a fairly high payroll. I think it's unfair to hold the 90 win season against them for not making the playoffs especially if you are willing to put down the "coin flip" season. I still don't know how you win 90 games and finish 3rd out of 5 teams. Irish Boy wrote: I'm not saying KW should be fired, but they really need to make the playoffs next year for him to stay safe, don't they? Probably. Missing the playoffs two years in a row would be bad and the credibility built in 2005 won't matter much to me in 2010. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Fair enough. They were strong in 2006 but that was a great year for the AL Central. That happens sometimes, and it's tough to hold it against KW. I think that Sox fans are cheap dates if KW isn't on the hot seat after next year. They should probably be favored to win the division. If they don't, 2005 is getting further and further in the rear view mirror. Frank: untwist your panties. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Irish Boy wrote: I think that Sox fans are cheap dates if KW isn't on the hot seat after next year. Would you say the same about Jerry Angelo then? Similar position as you stated in regards to playoffs and no championship ring. If the Bears miss the playoffs this year it will be 3 straight seasons doing so in a league in which most teams better than .500 makes the playoffs. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Irish Boy wrote: I think that Sox fans are cheap dates if KW isn't on the hot seat after next year. They should probably be favored to win the division. If they don't, 2005 is getting further and further in the rear view mirror. . Both Schuler and that douchebag who headed their PR department held their positions unitl they no longer wanted to work for the team. JR rarely fires someone unless they go against the organization. Fan opinion will not sway a man like Reinsdorf in these matters. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Has anyone mentioned the White Sox saw this as a "transition year"? |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
rogers park bryan wrote: Has anyone mentioned the White Sox saw this as a "transition year"? R.P. Bryan, I thought it was a "transition year", considering the likes of Gordon Beckham, Chris Getz & Jayson Nix were among the notable additions and that the White Sox were trying to be both a contender and a rebuilding team at the same time. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Kenny took over at the end of 2000. They have finished as follows 2001- 3rd 2002- 2nd 2003- 2nd 2004- 2nd 2005- 1st (won World Series) 2006- 3rd (90 wins) 2007- 4th 2008- 1st Outside of 1 season, they have been in it until at least Labor Day under KW. They started off horrendously in 2001, but actually made a charge in June and July before they ran out of gas at the end. The fact that the pitching failed the 2nd half of 2006 is not totally KW's fault. It was the same guys that won the WS just one year previous- plus he added Vazquez and Thome. In 2007 they were bad, but he made moves to get considerably better for the following years...Years, not just 2008. In 02-03, they had more than enough talent to win the division, but it was too many HR hitters and a terrible manager that cost them. That 2004 club would have won the division if either Ordonez OR Thomas stayed healthy. Given the track record, number of Championship rings, and the overall competetive records that the Sox have had, and the amount of good vs. bad moves/signings, as Rick has stated many times, KW is the best GM in this town since Krause-- bar none. Yes, he needs to make the playoffs, but lets wait until this year is over before we judge this year, and even then we need to see how Peavy, Getz, Rios, etc play out, and see what he does in the offseason with the $ coming off the books. |
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| Author: | Irish Boy [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Irish Boy wrote: I think that Sox fans are cheap dates if KW isn't on the hot seat after next year. Would you say the same about Jerry Angelo then? Similar position as you stated in regards to playoffs and no championship ring. If the Bears miss the playoffs this year it will be 3 straight seasons doing so in a league in which most teams better than .500 makes the playoffs. Maybe. We're getting close to the gettin' time on that too, although I don't think there's a doubt that he's got two years because of the Cutler trade. NFL teams also work within the confines of a salary cap so I give more slack there as well. MLB teams with top payrolls (Cubs included) are expected to make the playoffs every year. To not do so is a failure. And Frank, after all that sound and fury, signifying nothing, you say this: Quote: Yes, he needs to make the playoffs, but lets wait until this year is over before we judge this year, and even then we need to see how Peavy, Getz, Rios, etc play out, and see what he does in the offseason with the $ coming off the books. Isn't that precisely my point? Assuming they miss this year (highly likely), missing the playoffs next year should make his seat incredibly warm, if not downright boiling. It's not like they've been in the AL East during that period either. |
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| Author: | enigma [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
Frank Coztansa wrote: :roll: for chrissakes.. I think they figured this year to be a transition year, and that the Sox would probably hover around .500 but the fact is that they have showed they are better than a .500 team. They have played very well in big series and against good teams- Tampa, Cubs, Angels, Yankees, Dodgers. They have sucked against teams they should beat- KC, Baltimore, Oakland. The Sox are 63-63 and as you say have hovered around .500 all year, so how is it a fact that they are a better than a .500 team. Sure they have looked very good against the better teams, but when you can't take care of business against lesser teams, thats a flaw. Having a .500 record after 75% of the season has been completed usually means you are a .500 team. |
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| Author: | casual fan [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
I wonder if they are underachieving. Maybe last year they really overachieved. Floyd, Danks, Ramirez and Quentin. What if last year was the 'career' year and this year is closer to reality. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
casual fan wrote: I wonder if they are underachieving. Maybe last year they really overachieved. Floyd, Danks, Ramirez and Quentin. What if last year was the 'career' year and this year is closer to reality. except Floyd and Danks have still been good-great most of the year, Quentin is at a 30 HR pace and Ramirez numbers are similar to what he did last year...but it's a good theory...or is it |
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| Author: | casual fan [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
You made me look it up and although some of the stats are close, they were all better last year, although the pitching has been better than I would have thought. Floyd is the closest, his 08' era was 3.84, 3.98 this year. Danks was 3.32 last year, 3.85 this year. Ramirez BA, OBP, SLG, OPS for '08 were .290, .317, .475, .792. '09 is .273, .328, .404, .732 Quentin isn't close. I know he's been hurt, but his last year sats were all career highs, by a lot. '08: .288, .394, .571, .965 '09: .234, .328, .451, .777 |
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| Author: | Aggravated Sox Fan Bob [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finger pointin' time! |
I only have 2 hands. |
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