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When and where for the Frank Statue?
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42854		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bigfan [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  When and where for the Frank Statue?
Not joking! Yes, if he was a Cub he would be considered a national superstar and John McDonough would have made sure he was never regarded as a prick, but all being said, Frank is the best hitter in Sox history and he deserves his number retired and a BIG Frank statue would be really cool. Yes a statue bigger than the Mike Squires statue outside gate 4.

Frank could also save the content of his 'Retirement Speech" for his 'Frank Thomas Week" celebrations I anticpate Brant Billy Boyd pushing on the world and WSCR to sell some tickets.
Author:  Krazy Ivan [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
bigfan wrote:
Not joking!



Wait for it...


bigfan wrote:
Yes a statue bigger than the Mike Squires statue outside gate 4.



:roll:
Author:  Beebo [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
"Diminished Skills" statue?
Author:  good dolphin [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Put it in Kenny Williams' office just to drive him crazy.
Author:  Phil McCracken [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
They could always just bronze Andruw Jones. He is about the same size as Big Frank these days.
Author:  Brick [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Directly on the other side of the US Cellular property line so that the Frank Thomas statue will stay out of White Sox business.
Author:  Douchebag [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Phil McCracken wrote:
They could always just bronze Andruw Jones. He is about the same size as Big Frank these days.

Winner! :lol:
Author:  Hawkeye Vince [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Would you be able to get a union guy near it without picketing?
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Right next to a picture (or statue) of David Wells wearing a headset and holding an ESPN1000 microphone.
Author:  Eaglo Jeff [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
I want statues that consist of only Jose Valentin's mustache, Juan Uribe's arse, and Ivan Calderon's (moment of silence) chest hair.
Author:  spmack [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
They should put it at 35th and State where "those people" live......
Author:  Drop In [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
He was no Harold Baines.
Author:  Irish Boy [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
In the dugout, where he was for 95% of the game.
Author:  spmack [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Irish Boy wrote:
In the dugout, where he was for 95% of the game.

:lol: 2 for 2 IB....
Author:  Eaglo Jeff [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Irish Boy wrote:
In the dugout, where he was for 95% of the game.

Don Zimmer wrote:
CLUBHOUSE!!!!!!!!
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
spmack wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
In the dugout, where he was for 95% of the game.

:lol: 2 for 2 IB....

1 for 2 at best

In his prime, he played 1st.
# of games as 1st baseman, courtesy baseballreference.com

1992 158 games
1993 150 games
1994 99 games (strike shortened season)
1995 90 games
1996 139 games
1997 97 games

The first year he had more than 100 games at DH was 1998, and the Sox acquired Paul Konerko during the '98-'99 offseason. He certainly isn't a first ballot HOF'er because of his glove, but never let stats get in the way of a good argument IB!
Author:  Irish Boy [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
If it were physically possible for you to make a baby with the Chicago White Sox, would you do it?
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
You don't care to address the fact that during his prime, Frank Thomas played first base I see.
Author:  Spaulding [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
IB has been a good read today.
Author:  Irish Boy [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Well, it was more a cheapshot than an argument, but all you've told me is that only four seasons in his career (counting the strike year) was he at first base most of the time. Two other seasons he split time, and then the rest of the way he was a DH. Or injured.

Your defensiveness amuses me. I look forward to this upcoming season. "They're only seven games out. You win this last one at home, then go sweep a Twins four games in Minnesota, and you're only 2.5 games out. Then if they sweep the Yankee's in New York they'll be .500 again."
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
From Fangraphs:

The Greatness of Frank Thomas by Matt Klaassen - 2/12/2010 - Comments (31) - Share this Article


Frank Thomas, a.k.a. "The Big Hurt," officially retired today. However his career ended, his up-and-down (but hardly bad) 2000s makes it hard to recall his utter dominance in 1990s. I'm not going to get into the Hall-of-Fame debate about Thomas or designated hitters. Yes, we have to adjust for his defensive "contribution," but fortunately, Wins Above Replacement does just that. The "FanGraphs Era" currently only extends back to 2002, so for some historical WAR perspective, let's compare some career WAR numbers from Sean "Rally" Smith's historical WAR database.

Frank Thomas 75.9
Pete Rose 75.4
Johnny Bench 71.4
Brooks Robinson 69.2
Edgar Martinez 67.2
Duke Snider 67.2
Eddie Murray 66.7

To repeat: these numbers adjust for Thomas's non-contributions on defense. If you think the players below him on that list are Hall-quality, then Thomas, who was "only" a monster hitter, should get in, too.

Enough of that, let's discuss Thomas's greatness as a hitter. For this, I calculated linear weights using data from the Baseball Databank. I use the same basic version of custom linear weights/wOBA that FanGraphs does, but having it on my own database just allows me to manipulate the data for stuff like this.* The linear weights (aka "Batting Runs" or wRAA) are customized so that each event is weighted properly for each season. The runs above average are park-adjusted (thanks, terpsfan). I then convert them to wins, which further reflects the relative value of a run in that season.

* There are probably some slight differences due to discrepancies in source data, different park adjustments, etc. but it's very close. The batting runs also differ from Rally's, since his weights are adjusted to reconcile on the team- rather than league-level. Neither is "right" or "wrong," they are simply two different perspectives.

The top six career leaders in Batting Wins Above Average since 1955 (the first season Baseball Databank records intentional walks):

1. Barry Bonds 126.3
2. Hank Aaron 108.5
3. Willie Mays 91.0
4. Frank Robinson 89.7
5. Mickey Mantle 83.0
6. Frank Thomas 71.5

Granted that good chunks of Mantle and Mays' value came before 1955... that's still impressive company. Among those with career numbers inferior Thomas are: Jeff Bagwell (64.0), Willie McCovey (62.8 ), Harmon Killebrew (60.0), Mark McGwire (56.9), Jim Thome (55.4), and Sammy Sosa (34.8 ).

Another way of judging impact is to compare overall career numbers with peak value in order to separate guys who just hung on. So let's look at Thomas and two other great hitters of somewhat recent vintage and compare their career Batting Wins, their top three seasons, and the five-year continuous peaks:

Edgar Martinez
Career Batting Wins Above Average: 54.4
Career wRC+: 151
Top Three: 18.0 (6.8 in 1995, 5.6 in 1996, 5.5 in 1997)
Five-Year Peak: 27.5 from 1995-1999

Mark McGwire
Career Batting Wins Above Average: 56.9
Career wRC+: 161
Top Three: 22.1 (9.3 in 1998, 6.7 in 1996, 6.1 in 1999)
Five year Peak: 30.1 from 1995-1999

Frank Thomas
Career Batting Wins Above Average: 71.5
Career wRC+: 158
Top Three: 20.6 (7.1 in 1991, 6.8 in 1994 [!], 6.7 in 1992)
Five-Year Peak: 31.4 from 1992-1996 (includes 1994 strike)

I included Edgar because of the recent discussions about him, and also because, while he was obviously a great hitter, I wouldn't have thought his numbers would stand up so well against say, McGwire's. They aren't quite as good, but they are in the same territory. McGwire was obviously great, but I think not only Thomas's career numbers, but arguably his peak was better, too. His five-year peak is slightly better, and though his top three seasons (or best one) aren't quite as good as McGwire's, his second and third best seasons are better than McGwire's.

Moreover, both Thomas's top three and five-year peak both included the strike-shortened 1994 season. Regression to the mean tells us that Thomas likely wouldn't have continued at that rate, but do you think he would have hit at a league-average rate or below the rest of the season? There are a lot of "what ifs" in baseball, of course, and in 1994 in particular, as Expos fans know. But 6.8 Batting Wins in 113 games is simply astounding. And keep in mind that the AL was the more difficult league starting in the 1990s.

I'm not sure what better compliment to end on other than to say that when all three were at the top of their game(s), Frank Thomas was a more dominant hitter than Mark McGwire and Edgar Martinez.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Irish Boy wrote:
Well, it was more a cheapshot than an argument, but all you've told me is that only four seasons in his career (counting the strike year) was he at first base most of the time. Two other seasons he split time, and then the rest of the way he was a DH. Or injured.

By that logic, a starting pitcher should never get in the HOF then.
Author:  FYI [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
We all know it is not possible for Constanza to be on record with anything anti White Sox, I just thought it was accepted by now.
Author:  Irish Boy [ Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When and where for the Frank Statue?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
Well, it was more a cheapshot than an argument, but all you've told me is that only four seasons in his career (counting the strike year) was he at first base most of the time. Two other seasons he split time, and then the rest of the way he was a DH. Or injured.

By that logic, a starting pitcher should never get in the HOF then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)
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