Who thinks the team might be better off without Kenny? It's been obvious since he took this team over after the 2000 season that he has been trying to compensate for the fact that he was a hack of a ballplayer. I'm not saying that I have a problem with most of the moves that he has made. I don't know of another GM who gives up Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik. I also acknowledge the fact that most of the "prospects" he has dumped haven't really turned out.

My problem starts with the whole Thome fiasco. He doesn't bring him in because Ozzie says he doesn't want him. To be honest, that move looks more like Ozzie is running this team over him. A GM should be bringing in the guys he feels are best to help the team win, and he didn't do that.

Now we have the Kenny-Cowley-Oney-Ozzie war.

I just wonder if the best thing for the team is Jerry dumps Kenny and makes Rick Hahn the GM (before he loses him like he did Dan Evans).

_________________

To me Lee for Pods was his worst move. It doesn't look so bad because they won a World Series. And he can blame Ozzie for Thome not coming back all he wants. It was his call. He needed to replace that bat if he wasn't bringing him back. Vlad was out there and cheap too.

Still, I'd rather see Ozzie go. Managers have a shelf life and his seems to be nearing its end with the Sox.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

My honest feeling right now is to dump them both and start over with Cora and Hahn. I personally have no problems with the rest of the coaching staff.

_________________

I really have no problem with both of them staying. I'm not sure they feel the same way though.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

That's just it. Barring some sort of miracle finish, this thing is going to wind up getting REALLY ugly. I don't think the 2 of them can coexist for another season.

_________________

I think both are good at their jobs and obviously have the favor of the Chairman.

However if it becomes an untenable situation where one has to go, It will probably be Ozzie. Too volatile, and he really should put a muzzle on his offspring. You can also indirectly put some of the Lee for Podsednik trade on Ozzie, he's been trying to run a NL style club in the Cell since he got here.

_________________
1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

So if it helped you win a World Series, it's a bad move ... how?

Am I the only one that think you guys are nuts? They won a WS not too long ago and have remained competitive. That's hard to do in a league where you have teams spending $200M. I do wish Kenny would have convinced Jerry to take back the contract of Cabrera. It hasn't done as much for the Tigers as I thought it would but he would look great in a Sox uniform. The season isn't over yet. If the Sox make the playoffs both Ozzie and Kenny will be great again.

_________________

You can't blame Kenny for listening to his coach on Thome. An unhappy Ozzie watching Thome play and not do what his strategy was would have been a disaster.

It's 100% on Ozzie for the Thome decision. If you want to fire someone for that, it's Ozzie.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You really think Podsednik helped win a World Series more than Carlos Lee would have? Here's how it's a bad move. They gave away a premium run producer in his prime for a marginal player.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Well, that seems to be what part of the current conflict between these two is about. I think Ozzie may feel that it was an organizational decision that everyone agreed on and then Kenny decided to hang Ozzie out to dry on it.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

That may be the conflict but it just doesn't make sense that Kenny would give up on Thome when he made the unpopular but right move and traded for him, brought in other slow, older home run hitters(Griffey) and in general does not seem to value speed over home runs which was the whole point of not bringing back Thome.

It was Ozzie's call. It had to be. It doesn't match Kenny's profile.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree with everything in your post here but I would point out that it's possible Kenny might have been willing to let Thome go due to the chronic back problems he had over the past couple seasons. I blame Ozzie for the poor DH production too. The bigger problem to me is that he seems to believe it's working fairly well.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

You are correct. This may reflect badly on the organization but the players have repeatedly said it has not effect on them...other than they have to worry about Oney tweeting about their goomahs on the road.

If I was KW I would pay someone to make an I Hate Oney webpage and follow that little fuck around like a private detective, taking pictures of his every indescretion and posting them on the site.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I think he already created a Twitter account :

http://twitter.com/Oney_Lies

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Look out....when people with some brains and common sense question the way the White Sox are being operated....SUCH AS HAVING NO FARM SYSTEM UNDER RED ASS KENNY.........................................

White Sox FANBOYS like Turd Ferguson are out there ready to POUNCE!!!!!

Remember, this pile pf crap team is still in some Selig created Divisional 'Race'........
LMAO!!!!!!

Game #163....Here come the Reinsdouchebags!!!!!!!!!!

STRAP IT DOWN with the White Sox FANBOYS!!!!!!!

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Come on Bob. Two weeks ago I would have put this team up against anyone in the AL besides the Yankees.

I understand they have no farm system and really have not during KW entire reign (including when he was in charge of the the minor league system). Still, he puts together a pretty good team every year.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I don't understand all of this need to point fingers and place blame over the Thome situation. There is no doubt that the guy is having a nice little resurgence this season after a few years of decline. But it was not to be expected - he is about to turn 40. I was fine with the decision not to bring him back at the time. The guy absolutely cannot catch up to a high fastball and why anybody throws him anything else is beyond me.

I just don't think the decision not to bring him back is a horrible offense. Its not like trading away a young prospect who is going to go on to have 10+ productive years with another team.

I'm not saying that either Kenny or Ozzie is perfect. You can make a case that either (or both) of them should be fired. But not over the Thome situation.

Again, the problem isn't that they didn't bring back Thome specifically. It's that they replaced him with a combination of Mark Kotsay, Andruw Jones, Juan Pierre, and Omar Vizquel. And now, in the heat of a pennant race, they are losing to shitty teams and shitty pitchers by scores of 4-2 and 3-2 and 2-1.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

Thome doesn't put the White Sox in the class of the Yankees, Rays or Red Sox.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

This is the annual A.L. Central Bud Selig SHITFEST.......I don't call this a PENNANT RACE.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

Who they weren't going to sign at the end of the season anyway. I had no problem with that move now, and I really didn't at the time.

With how anemic that 2005 offense was at times early, Pods was vital in probably no fewer than 15 wins in April and May. He would get on, steal 2nd (sometimes 3rd as well), and get knocked in. Sox were up 1-0 by the end of the 1st inning many many times early in that season.

_________________

And he came up big when it mattered most.

_________________

Pods was one of the big reasons they won a World Series...they couldnt do anything the years before that with all the power they had

Lee is not premium...he is another Dante Bichette...good in hitter-friendly parks, and not much else

I was more upset at the Ordonez trade, he is a real good hitter, not just a homerun hitter...and even when they were on the same team, I liked Ordonez better...dont be fooled by Lee...he hits in homerun-friendly Houston...and all told, hasn't really made any difference for them...whereas Ordonez has been a key kog in Detroit's resurgence the last 5 years

agreed that I'd rather have Lee over Pods over the long haul when u compare them overall as baseball players, but Pods was so huge that year in winning the title, that the Sox got the better of the trade no matter what else happened after. They would not have won with Carlos Lee...in fact, it was the exodus of all that fat power they had that made them into a better team

much like Seattle couldnt win anything with Junior, A-rod, Buhner, and Edgar all those years in the 90's, but suddenly take them out, and they win 116 games and became a solid contender every year

_________________

Ordonez left as a Free Agent......repped by Scott Boras.

_________________
There goes one over the fence..Tru Link Fence..Beauty, Privacy Security....Call Tru Link.
Murph's Union 76 Truck Stop....A great Thanksgiving Tradition!!!!

WOO LIFE!!!!

He was? He scored about 80 runs leading off and drove in around 25 or so. That team won is spite of Podsednik rather than because of him.

_________________
The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.