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| Closer? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=53930 |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Closer? |
Who should/will be the Sox closer in 2011? Sale? Thornton? Santos? Closer by committee? |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
isn't that the old guy who used to post excellent porn here |
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| Author: | whistler [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
not Sale or Thronton so, Santos. did we get rid of Putz too? |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
whistler wrote: not Sale or Thronton so, Santos. did we get rid of Putz too? "We"?? |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Sale but only for this year. |
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| Author: | Free Ajent [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Santo(Ron) |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
I don't think he's got the legs to last all season. |
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| Author: | Turd Ferguson [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
I think Santos is probably the best answer. As much as he fell out of favor with Kenny, Ozzie and the fans, I think Jenks is going to be missed. |
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| Author: | Krazy Ivan [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
good dolphin wrote: isn't that the old guy who used to post excellent porn here Somebody should do a creepy wellness check... |
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| Author: | NearWessSideHussra [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
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| Author: | whistler [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
NearWessSideHussra wrote: 
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Keyser Soze wrote: Sale but only for this year. Here's the problem with that, Keyser. If Sale is successful as a closer on a contending team, his role and career path will be established. To me, it's an absolute waste to use a guy like that to pitch 65 innings when he could be handling 200 for you. As a lefthanded starter he gives you flexibility to move Danks prior to his big payday if you want to- perhaps without significantly weakening the rotation. You can find another guy to face three batters with a two run lead in the ninth. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Here's the problem with that, Keyser. If Sale is successful as a closer on a contending team, his role and career path will be established. This guy disagrees with you. 
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Wainwright was never a successful closer. He pitched in relief when he first got to the big leagues the way a lot of guys do. If Sale is the closer next season and he gets 30-40 saves, you'll never see him as a starter. And that would be a fuckin' shame. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Wainwright was never a successful closer. 4 saves with a 0.00 ERA in the 2006 playoffs. He also won a game in the WS that year. I would say that is successful. Also, see John Smoltz and Ryan Dempster. I agree that Sale should ultimately be a starter, but guys can go from closer to starter and vice versa. Sale was also outstanding last year out of the 'pen, and the 'pen is still the Sox biggest need at this point. |
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| Author: | mel junior [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: To me, it's an absolute waste to use a guy like that to pitch 65 innings when he could be handling 200 for you. As a lefthanded starter he gives you flexibility to move Danks prior to his big payday if you want to- perhaps without significantly weakening the rotation. You can find another guy to face three batters with a two run lead in the ninth. This. A starting LHP with nasty stuff like Sale is much more valueable in the rotation, long term. That being said, I'm worried that his funky arm slot is going to cause problems long term for him pitching 200 innings a year. |
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| Author: | johnnyfontane [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Wainwright was never a successful closer. He pitched in relief when he first got to the big leagues the way a lot of guys do. If Sale is the closer next season and he gets 30-40 saves, you'll never see him as a starter. And that would be a fuckin' shame. Actually, Wainwright is the perfect example of a guy who was a great closer in his first year and then went on to become a great starter. Not saying this will work with Sale, but Wainwright is the last guy you should use as an example. |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
If the Rangers don't sign or trade for a starter they are going to turn Feliz back into a starter. I very much want to see Sale as a starter and I don't think 1 year of closing will establish his career. I read something yesterday that said after the Royals acquired Jeffress from the Brewers that they are thinking of turning Soria back into a starter. |
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| Author: | mel junior [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
The second and third time a game that batters see Soria, they will knock him around pretty good. |
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| Author: | Keyser Soze [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
I disagree. Soria has 4 pitches but he doesn't use them all because of the role he's in. This is a move that is LONG overdue. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Wainwright has three career saves. He closed out ten games during that season. He was the defacto closer in the World Series run because they didn't have anyone better. But the Cardinals always intended to make him a starter. To do anything else would have been foolish. Like the decision the Sox appear ready to make with Sale. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: He was the defacto closer in the World Series run because they didn't have anyone better. I agree. He was still successful in that role. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: He was the defacto closer in the World Series run because they didn't have anyone better. I agree. He was still successful in that role. Okay. And Sale has already been successful as a closer too. What he hasn't done is establish himself as a closer. Wainwright never did either. The decision with Sale is going to be made now. If he's the closer, that's going to be where he stays- barring failure. |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
But originally you didn't say anything about establishing anything. You said that Wainwright was never a successful closer. That simply is not true. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Frank Coztansa wrote: But originally you didn't say anything about establishing anything. You said that Wainwright was never a successful closer. That simply is not true. I don't want to get into a semantic argument, Frank. Is it fair to say that Wainwright doesn't have a large enough sample of work to call him a "successful closer"? He did the job on an interim basis due to the situation his team was in. I wouldn't say a guy with three career saves was a succesful closer although he may have done that job successfully for a short time. In any case, do you really think that if Sale is a lockdown closer next season the Sox are going to turn around and make him a starter in 2012? |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: In any case, do you really think that if Sale is a lockdown closer next season the Sox are going to turn around and make him a starter in 2012? I think that would depend on who is available on the open market, how Santos does this year, and if anybody else on the Sox 40 man either emerges as a solid reliever, or takes a shit like Linebrink did. But yes I think Sale could be a starter in 2012. I have no idea if he will be or not. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Frank Coztansa wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: In any case, do you really think that if Sale is a lockdown closer next season the Sox are going to turn around and make him a starter in 2012? I think that would depend on who is available on the open market, how Santos does this year, and if anybody else on the Sox 40 man either emerges as a solid reliever, or takes a shit like Linebrink did. But yes I think Sale could be a starter in 2012. I have no idea if he will be or not. Well, neither do I, but I would bet good money- after watching the way Guillen/Cooper operate- that if he has success in that role, they won't move him around again. I'd rather just see him in the rotation right out of the gate and go from there. |
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| Author: | johnnyfontane [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
There is nothing stopping him from being a successful closer in 2011 and a successful starter after that. Being a closer doesn't "ruin" him as a starting pitcher. That seems to be what you're implying and it just isn't true. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
johnnyfontane wrote: There is nothing stopping him from being a successful closer in 2011 and a successful starter after that. Being a closer doesn't "ruin" him as a starting pitcher. That seems to be what you're implying and it just isn't true. I'm not implying anything of the kind. What I'm saying is that I find it highly unlikely that the Sox would turn him into a starter if he had a great season as a closer. |
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| Author: | johnnyfontane [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closer? |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: johnnyfontane wrote: There is nothing stopping him from being a successful closer in 2011 and a successful starter after that. Being a closer doesn't "ruin" him as a starting pitcher. That seems to be what you're implying and it just isn't true. I'm not implying anything of the kind. What I'm saying is that I find it highly unlikely that the Sox would turn him into a starter if he had a great season as a closer. And maybe that's not a bad thing. A lockdown closer is a precious commodity. They wanted to turn Papelbon in to a starter for his first couple seasons but he has proven far more valuable as a closer. |
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