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| Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=62634 |
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| Author: | illini81887 [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
“I think it’s one of the biggest farces I’ve ever seen in baseball,” Harrelson said about Beane’s computerized baseball strategy. “I said at the time it’s going to get a lot of managers fired, and it has.” Stone: “When I take a look at all the attention that Billy happens to be getting now, I think the way he has gone about sabermetrics, number one, he didn’t invent it. Number two, he didn’t refine it. And number three, I like my winners to actually have won something.” http://www.csnchicago.com/09/26/11/Sox-Drawer-Hawk--Stone-rip-Beane-Moneyba/landing_soxdrawer_v3.html?blockID=567770&feedID=661 |
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| Author: | Drop In [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
I wonder if they would like #MoneyBoers? |
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| Author: | Urlacher's missing neck [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
When are they going to make that movie about Hawk and Joe West? |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
illini81887 wrote: “I think it’s one of the biggest farces I’ve ever seen in baseball,” Harrelson said about Beane’s computerized baseball strategy. “I said at the time it’s going to get a lot of managers fired, and it has.” Stone: “When I take a look at all the attention that Billy happens to be getting now, I think the way he has gone about sabermetrics, number one, he didn’t invent it. Number two, he didn’t refine it. And number three, I like my winners to actually have won something.” http://www.csnchicago.com/09/26/11/Sox-Drawer-Hawk--Stone-rip-Beane-Moneyba/landing_soxdrawer_v3.html?blockID=567770&feedID=661 Don't think Beane ever said he invented it or refined it. Like it or not, he was one of the first to use it. I love hearing Sox employees rip Beane. Bean used saber as a way of trying to pay less for players, that others might not have been interested in. He had to find another angle as one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. Any other teams that try and pay less for players, maybe after they had bad years and HOPE they do better? |
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| Author: | Drop In [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Urlacher's missing neck wrote: When are they going to make that movie about Hawk and Joe West? Whenever Burt Reynolds and Dom DeLuise are available. |
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| Author: | SomeGuy [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Drop In wrote: I wonder if they would like #MoneyBoers? Probably not. Do they even know the concepts and such that are behind "Moneyball"? It seems to me that a lot of the famous critics and such are confused/ignorant of what principals comprise "Moneyball", some (Like Joe Morgan) didn't even know whowrote the book or what was in the book...People hear the word "Moneyball" and a zillion different ideas and come rushing out. Not defending or attacking it but i seems to draw heavy, raw and fire and passion emotion/vitriol from the baseball communtity. |
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| Author: | Drop In [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
SomeGuy wrote: Drop In wrote: I wonder if they would like #MoneyBoers? Probably not. Do they even know the concepts and such that are behind "Moneyball"? It seems to me that a lot of the famous critics and such are confused/ignorant of what principals comprise "Moneyball", some (Like Joe Morgan) didn't even know whowrote the book or what was in the book...People hear the word "Moneyball" and a zillion different ideas and come rushing out. Not defending or attacking it but i seems to draw heavy, raw and fire and passion emotion/vitriol from the baseball communtity. It's obviously going to upset the old baseball crowd. Not only are they being told they're no longer relevant, but it's being told they're not relevant with a character that really hasn't won anything. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Well, the book had a lot of dumb stuff in it. For example, if you knew nothing about baseball and read the book, you'd have the idea that Chad Bradford was some kind of important player rather than the fifth or sixth man in a bullpen. You'd also believe that trading an excellent defensive catcher who is going to have a long career for him was Beane fleecing Kenny Williams. |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
I tried reading that shit...gave it a few graphs...but it comes off as nothing more than two guys bitching about something they really have no clue about. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
I'm pretty sure they know about Billy Beane being an overrated piece of shit. As was said, how does Miguel Tejada have anything to do with SBARmetrics? Or Eric Chavez? Or Mulder, Zito, and Hudson? Fuck him. |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Terry's Peeps wrote: I'm pretty sure they know about Billy Beane being an overrated piece of shit. As was said, how does Miguel Tejada have anything to do with SBARmetrics? Or Eric Chavez? Or Mulder, Zito, and Hudson? Fuck him. I'm having a hard time telling what parts of this are actually real and what parts are your MoneyBoers work. They clearly didn't read the book or see the movie...they admit as much...so why in the everloving fuck would anyone care what they think about either one? |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
This isn't anything about MoneyBoers. They gave their opinion on Billy Beane and why they think making a movie about a GM who never won anything is silly. I agree with them. That is all. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
The whole point of the movie is trying to win ANYTHING with a budget way below 95% of MLB. I have to give the guy credit for doing that from 2002-2006. Also,Beane states a few times in the movie,nothing matters unless you win the last game of the season. He was never happy just winning divisions. |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Cool. They still come off as idiots. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Sweet. Won't be the last time. |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Rad I have radiation sickness. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Neato. Up and Atom! |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Wham! Freedom... |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Bazinga! Wait I had something for this..... |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Arrowed!!! You must be girls... |
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| Author: | Ugueth Will Shiv You [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
| You win lipid. |
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| Author: | W_Z [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
art howe has complained about how he's portrayed in the movie. he hasn't seen it. if you want to be taken seriously with your opinion, at least see the goddamn movie. it's like when parents/teachers bitch about a movie or record they haven't seen or listened to but suddenly they're an expert on it. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
W_Z, I think Hawk & Stoney admitted they didn't read the book either. I thought Art Howe was portrayed as a man who wants to do his job and not told what to do. Beane looked like an A-Hole on two occasions in the movie. One was talking to Howe about a contract extension and two joking to his daughter about her plane crashing post 911. |
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| Author: | W_Z [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
well, that SOON after 9/11 anyway...heh i wonder how that slipped past the screenwriters, cos i'm almost positive that conversation didn't happen in real life. this film was very dramatized, as much as i liked it. |
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| Author: | good dolphin [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
SomeGuy wrote: Drop In wrote: I wonder if they would like #MoneyBoers? Probably not. Do they even know the concepts and such that are behind "Moneyball"? It seems to me that a lot of the famous critics and such are confused/ignorant of what principals comprise "Moneyball", some (Like Joe Morgan) didn't even know whowrote the book or what was in the book...People hear the word "Moneyball" and a zillion different ideas and come rushing out. Not defending or attacking it but i seems to draw heavy, raw and fire and passion emotion/vitriol from the baseball communtity. After reading it, I would classify Moneyball as a love note from Michael Lewis to Billy Beane. It spends a lot of time talking about Beane's physical attributes in a very non hetero way. |
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| Author: | Chus [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
Drop In wrote: Urlacher's missing neck wrote: When are they going to make that movie about Hawk and Joe West? Whenever Burt Reynolds and Dom DeLuise are available. I don't think Dom DeLuise is available, although he has lost weight. |
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| Author: | Stretch [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
If Hawk thinks Billy Beane is such a terrible General Manager maybe he should try his hand at it... |
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| Author: | Dave In Champaign [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
jimmypasta wrote: I think Hawk & Stoney admitted they didn't read the book either. No need to read books when you already know everything. |
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| Author: | trickybeck [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hawk and Stoney rip into Moneyball |
The guys that say Moneyball was a fraud never realize three things: 1) Every team in the majors quickly added at least some sabermetrics to their analysis. They must think there's validity to it. 2) The whole book was about getting value based on superior, secretive information, but publishing the book gave away all that secret information to every other team. Why did Beane ever agree to it? Ego I guess. 3) Even with the little bit of extra value that Oakland was getting, they still had a way smaller payroll than the big boys. No room to sign big free agents to cover any mistakes. If you get $70 million of value out of a $50 million payroll, you're still going to lag behind the Yankees getting $80 million of value from their $100 million payroll. Check out the yearly payroll numbers: http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/ ... /team/2002 |
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