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Kenny told Ventura to shut up about the closer?

Is there a link to the quote? That's pretty fucking stupid and arrogant if true.

Which fits Kenny to a tee.

It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that.

His own comments tonight on the Score made me feel much stronger about it.

JORR, you are half right. Even though the contempt you harbor towards Beane for the way he treated noted Good Baseball Man Art Howe comes through in your words.

rogers park bryan wrote:

JORR, you are half right. Even though the contempt you harbor towards Beane for the way he treated noted Good Baseball Man Art Howe comes through in your words.

I don't have anything against Beane. I can't blame a guy because others fawn over him. I'd take a bow too. I'm sure it served Michael Lewis' narrative to make Howe out to be a clownish buffoon. And I don't remember it being as bad in the book as it was in the movie.

Anyway, I'm not a guy who fetishizes managers. If I were the Sox, I'd save a million bucks and have Konerko or AJ make out the lineup card. Way too much is made of managers. I could provide a card with the basics of what to do in common situations. Don't "go with your gut". It's like playing craps the right way, taking the odds, and then suddenly and wildly throwing a c-note on the yo. It's a bad percentage play. If you have to take the bunt away from your manager, so be it. In the long run, you'll score more runs. let God sort out where they fall. Nobody is that smart.

I believe Kenny has convinced himself that the only thing that stopped him from winning another title was Ozzie and the Ozzie Guillen show....

rogers park bryan wrote:

I believe Kenny has convinced himself that the only thing that stopped him from winning another title was Ozzie and the Ozzie Guillen show....

We still don't know if Ozzie had any say with the rosters of 2010 and 2011. It appears that the DH by committee thing was all Ozzie. It appears that most (if not all) of the moves made for the '11 team were Kenny's. In hindsight, they were all pretty bad.

I firmly believe that the Ozzie Guillen Show was at the very least a partial distraction for the players in the first part of 2010 which is partly to blame for them getting off to such a mediocre start.

[Kenny talking with the Blue Jays people after the deal, they asked who would close for them, Robin said 'I will decide that", Kenny claims he said "No you won't"

It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that..

bigfan wrote:

The manager does not make a positional decision on a propspect. That is regularly an organizational decision.

Does "Kenny" have the biggest ego of all Chicago sports ??

good dolphin wrote:

bigfan wrote:

The manager does not make a positional decision on a propspect. That is regularly an organizational decision.

and not said in an interview!

There is no doubt a prospect coming up the system needs to be an organization, I understand that, but I guess Robin didn't

I am telling you this is the start of bad things between them.

In case you have not noticed, almost everything with Kenny ends bad.

So he is there to take the fall? lol

The guy is going to go from a legend to a disgrace and be told what to do by Kenny the whole time ? For what?

The guy banked $67M, was living in San Diego coaching HS baseball, probably has his choice of MILF's,

Time will tell on this one, but I see this ending badly!

In case you have not noticed, almost everything with Kenny ends bad.

bigfan wrote:

I can't think of a player that became a "disgrace" because they failed as a coach. Now, maybe Pete Rose but that's because he was doing bad things.

Why would you view Ventura as a disgrace because he failed as a manager? Most people think he's not going to be good anyways.

It's not a farce.

It's time to rebuild. I don't care about attendance. More room for me.

Expectations will be so low booing won't make sense.

cpguy, are you a Sox fan or Cubs fan?

If its the latter, why do you care?

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Nestor Molina
Heard 5 different scouting reports on the kid today. All from respected guys who follow the minor leagues. 92 MPH was the highest I heard that this kid throws, which is fine, I know Greg Maddux and many others didnt throw much over 90 on many pitches. But then why do I hear Kenny Williams tell people he throws 92-96 MPH?

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
yeah I read and heard it. His asset is the ability to use 4 pitches and mix it up. Which is great. But nowhere did I see a 96 MPH range on his fast ball as Kenny said. Then Kenny told Robin Ventura to shut up about the closer, Kenny will make those deciscions. Pretty sure I see that relationship turn bad in a hurry!

Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Kenny told Ventura to shut up about the closer? Is there a link to the quote? That's pretty fucking stupid and arrogant if true. Which fits Kenny to a tee.

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Terry's Peeps wrote: Kenny told Ventura to shut up about the closer? Is there a link to the quote? That's pretty fucking stupid and arrogant if true. Which fits Kenny to a tee. he was 1/2 joking, but played on the Score tonight. Kenny talking with the Blue Jays people after the deal, they asked who would close for them, Robin said 'I will decide that", Kenny claims he said "No you won't" It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that. His own comments tonight on the Score made me feel much stronger about it.

Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
I see. Thanks for the clarification.

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Nestor Molina https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=65192	Page 1 of 2

Author:	cpguy [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Does "Kenny" have the biggest ego of all Chicago sports execs?? This guy needs to be wacked, which for Jerry means "promoted" to Team President.

Author:	Rod [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
bigfan wrote: It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that. His own comments tonight on the Score made me feel much stronger about it. This is the new Beane/Theo style that Kenny is embracing. SABRmetrics make the calls, not the whims of managers. It can make a smart GM sick to see a manager bunting and talking nonsense about great hitters clogging the bases. So you let idiot teams get those old boy managers and hire yourself a Sveum or Ventura who will do exactly what he is told.

Author:	rogers park bryan [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
bigfan wrote: It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that. His own comments tonight on the Score made me feel much stronger about it. Maybe you are referring to acutal SCORE hosts because tons of people here and in other forums wrote the day Ventura was hired that he was hired to be Kenny's puppet JORR, you are half right. Even though the contempt you harbor towards Beane for the way he treated noted Good Baseball Man Art Howe comes through in your words. I believe Kenny has convinced himself that the only thing that stopped him from winning another title was Ozzie and the Ozzie Guillen show.... I disagree with his assessment if that's the case

Author:	Rod [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
rogers park bryan wrote: JORR, you are half right. Even though the contempt you harbor towards Beane for the way he treated noted Good Baseball Man Art Howe comes through in your words. I don't have anything against Beane. I can't blame a guy because others fawn over him. I'd take a bow too. I'm sure it served Michael Lewis' narrative to make Howe out to be a clownish buffoon. And I don't remember it being as bad in the book as it was in the movie. Anyway, I'm not a guy who fetishizes managers. If I were the Sox, I'd save a million bucks and have Konerko or AJ make out the lineup card. Way too much is made of managers. I could provide a card with the basics of what to do in common situations. Don't "go with your gut". It's like playing craps the right way, taking the odds, and then suddenly and wildly throwing a c-note on the yo. It's a bad percentage play. If you have to take the bunt away from your manager, so be it. In the long run, you'll score more runs. let God sort out where they fall. Nobody is that smart.

Author:	bigfan [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: JORR, you are half right. Even though the contempt you harbor towards Beane for the way he treated noted Good Baseball Man Art Howe comes through in your words. I don't have anything against Beane. I can't blame a guy because others fawn over him. I'd take a bow too. I'm sure it served Michael Lewis' narrative to make Howe out to be a clownish buffoon. And I don't remember it being as bad in the book as it was in the movie. Anyway, I'm not a guy who fetishizes managers. If I were the Sox, I'd save a million bucks and have Konerko or AJ make out the lineup card. Way too much is made of managers. I could provide a card with the basics of what to do in common situations. Don't "go with your gut". It's like playing craps the right way, taking the odds, and then suddenly and wildly throwing a c-note on the yo. It's a bad percentage play. If you have to take the bunt away from your manager, so be it. In the long run, you'll score more runs. let God sort out where they fall. Nobody is that smart. JORR, you are going down a dangerous road! Been using your example above for years on Kenneth. Why doesn't this apply to the GM signing guys who had bad years, or guys coming off injuries? EXAMPLE: It didn't take an inside baseball guy to know Jermaine Dye was a really good baseball player. He just could not stay healthy, with some major injuries, like a broker leg. So when you sign him, are you just laying down the $100 and hoping no lingering issues and than he doesnt have a 4th season ending injury? Then you hit the YO with the C Note down, are you really smart? or just lucky????

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
rogers park bryan wrote: I believe Kenny has convinced himself that the only thing that stopped him from winning another title was Ozzie and the Ozzie Guillen show.... We still don't know if Ozzie had any say with the rosters of 2010 and 2011. It appears that the DH by committee thing was all Ozzie. It appears that most (if not all) of the moves made for the '11 team were Kenny's. In hindsight, they were all pretty bad. I firmly believe that the Ozzie Guillen Show was at the very least a partial distraction for the players in the first part of 2010 which is partly to blame for them getting off to such a mediocre start.

Author:	Rod [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Frank Coztansa wrote: rogers park bryan wrote: I believe Kenny has convinced himself that the only thing that stopped him from winning another title was Ozzie and the Ozzie Guillen show.... We still don't know if Ozzie had any say with the rosters of 2010 and 2011. It appears that the DH by committee thing was all Ozzie. It appears that most (if not all) of the moves made for the '11 team were Kenny's. In hindsight, they were all pretty bad. I firmly believe that the Ozzie Guillen Show was at the very least a partial distraction for the players in the first part of 2010 which is partly to blame for them getting off to such a mediocre start. I think it's pretty obvious I'm not a Guillen fan, Frank, but it does take two to tango. Kenny is just as responsible for that nonsense as Ozzie. Maybe even more. He's supposed to be the boss. Instead they acted like two little children going behind each other's backs whining to Big Daddy Jerry.

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
bigfan wrote: [Kenny talking with the Blue Jays people after the deal, they asked who would close for them, Robin said 'I will decide that", Kenny claims he said "No you won't" It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that.. The manager does not make a positional decision on a propspect. That is regularly an organizational decision.

Author:	8675309 [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
I try to stay out of White Sox business but I got a kick out of this: In describing Molina, Williams ran through all the scouting-type reasons for liking him, but didn't stop there. "He is in winter league right now,'' Williams said, "pitching with the same success.'' Shortly thereafter, a White Sox public relations staffer sent an email to reporters showing Molina having compiled a 2.77 earned-run average in 21 appearances for Lara in the Venezuelan League, with 26 strikeouts and only five walks. Pretty strong numbers. One problem: Those were his 2010 statistics. Molina hasn't pitched winter ball this season, and had no plans to while a member of the Toronto organization. I know people rip on them not spending money on scouting but.........wow

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Author:	bigfan [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
good dolphin wrote: bigfan wrote: [Kenny talking with the Blue Jays people after the deal, they asked who would close for them, Robin said 'I will decide that", Kenny claims he said "No you won't" It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that.. The manager does not make a positional decision on a propspect. That is regularly an organizational decision. and not said in an interview! There is no doubt a prospect coming up the system needs to be an organization, I understand that, but I guess Robin didn't I am telling you this is the start of bad things between them.

Author:	Gloopan Kuratz [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
cpguy wrote: Does "Kenny" have the biggest ego of all Chicago sports ?? 2nd only to Mac.

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
bigfan wrote: good dolphin wrote: bigfan wrote: [Kenny talking with the Blue Jays people after the deal, they asked who would close for them, Robin said 'I will decide that", Kenny claims he said "No you won't" It is an angle that has not been talked about. While everyone was trying to explain or a give a good reason for Robiin, as the hire, it became clear when kenny told the world Sale will be starting. Pretty sure the manager usually does that.. The manager does not make a positional decision on a propspect. That is regularly an organizational decision. and not said in an interview! There is no doubt a prospect coming up the system needs to be an organization, I understand that, but I guess Robin didn't I am telling you this is the start of bad things between them. No it won't. He was a perfect guy for the rebuild....fan favorite, no apparent enemies, says nothing controversial, no expectations. His teams will suck for three years after which they will be out from under the Rios/Dunn/Peavy contracts. Robin will take the fall. KW will be moved up in the front office. Robin is like Oswald. He's the patsy in this scheme.

Author:	bigfan [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
So he is there to take the fall? lol The guy is going to go from a legend to a disgrace and be told what to do by Kenny the whole time ? For what? The guy banked $67M, was living in San Diego coaching HS baseball, probably has his choice of MILF's, Time will tell on this one, but I see this ending badly! In case you have not noticed, almost everything with Kenny ends bad.

Author:	Rod [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
bigfan wrote: In case you have not noticed, almost everything with Kenny ends bad. Stay out of White Sox business!

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
bigfan wrote: So he is there to take the fall? lol The guy is going to go from a legend to a disgrace and be told what to do by Kenny the whole time ? For what? The guy banked $67M, was living in San Diego coaching HS baseball, probably has his choice of MILF's, Time will tell on this one, but I see this ending badly! In case you have not noticed, almost everything with Kenny ends bad. Except for the 2005 season! Hey, Jelousy!

Author:	Brick [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
bigfan wrote: So he is there to take the fall? lol The guy is going to go from a legend to a disgrace and be told what to do by Kenny the whole time ? For what? The guy banked $67M, was living in San Diego coaching HS baseball, probably has his choice of MILF's, Time will tell on this one, but I see this ending badly! In case you have not noticed, almost everything with Kenny ends bad. I can't think of a player that became a "disgrace" because they failed as a coach. Now, maybe Pete Rose but that's because he was doing bad things. Why would you view Ventura as a disgrace because he failed as a manager? Most people think he's not going to be good anyways.

Author:	bigfan [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Boilermaker Rick wrote: bigfan wrote: So he is there to take the fall? lol The guy is going to go from a legend to a disgrace and be told what to do by Kenny the whole time ? For what? The guy banked $67M, was living in San Diego coaching HS baseball, probably has his choice of MILF's, Time will tell on this one, but I see this ending badly! In case you have not noticed, almost everything with Kenny ends bad. I can't think of a player that became a "disgrace" because they failed as a coach. Now, maybe Pete Rose but that's because he was doing bad things. Why would you view Ventura as a disgrace because he failed as a manager? Most people think he's not going to be good anyways. Berry Tevington, or did I miss him at the Sox conventions? Most managers don't make it through 3 bad years. I understand the plan, Robin gets better with the team then in year 4 of the "THE ROBIN PLAN", you resign him for another 3 years because he will be ready and the team will be ready. Meanwhile Robin will endure 3 years of fans bashing him on White Sox Weekly, booing him when he walks to the mound, etc. After all that, will you applaude him for 30 seconds for his playing career, then boo him as a manager. Good luck with it all, I just dont think it will end well.

Author:	Darkside [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Wasn't Nestor that spikey haired kid from Nintendo Power?

Author:	cpguy [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
The Cell is going to be a morgue. I predict attendance down another 20% from last year and the boos will be reigning down on this team. The heat will really be on Reinsdorf to axe "Kenny" ultimately resulting in his "promotion". This franchise has really disintegrated into a total farce.

Author:	Terry's Peeps [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
It's not a farce. It's time to rebuild. I don't care about attendance. More room for me. Expectations will be so low booing won't make sense.

Author:	cpguy [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Terry's Peeps wrote: It's not a farce. It's time to rebuild. I don't care about attendance. More room for me. Expectations will be so low booing won't make sense. Dunn and Rios are going to be booed off the field. It's going to be hilarious.

Author:	cpguy [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Terry's Peeps wrote: It's not a farce. It's time to rebuild. I don't care about attendance. More room for me. Expectations will be so low booing won't make sense. So who do the Sox rebuild around? Brent Morel?? Kenny should be fired for the current state of the franchise.

Author:	Frank Coztansa [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
cpguy, are you a Sox fan or Cubs fan? If its the latter, why do you care?

Author:	cpguy [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nestor Molina
Frank Coztansa wrote: cpguy, are you a Sox fan or Cubs fan? If its the latter, why do you care? Cubs fan but also a Chicago sports fan. I am just amazed Sox fans aren't outraged that KW hasn't been shitcanned. This franchise has to now be one of the worst in all of baseball without a doubt. Shit MLB roster, shit farm system, shit magt. Wow.