Should they tear this bitch down?

Trade Dunn, trade Konerko??

Both have value and they desperately need young talent...

Piling on the Sox fans is getting mean now that it actually does look like they'll blow it. When I was getting my jabs in, I still thought they'd win the division anyway. I must now declare myself officially out of Sox-bashing for the year.

_________________

It's a legitimate question...

How this team has been run they will be terrible next year.

_________________
RFDC thinks I'm retarded.

I think, like the Cubs, the Sox should trade the vets and go young. I know "Kenny" doesn't like doing that but aren't they booting his ass upstairs anyway?

You know the owners don't like losing money and clearly the fans aren't supporting this team. They will fail to draw 2M fans this year and this is the 6th straight decline in attendance.

Face reality and rebuild.

They should also sell high on Rios.

Konerko obviously would have to approve a trade to any team first, so that's going to be kind of an obstacle. I am not sure where he would want to go, but his home is out in Arizona, so I'm guessing that direction, if any, and probably would want to be on a team with a shot of winning another WS. He'd have to DH or play 1B, and those are spots which are generally already filled on WS potential teams. Plus he only is under contract for one more year, and most of that money is deferred anyhow, so it doesn't make a ton of sense for the Sox to move him. I don't think any team is going to be giving up a lot of young talent for a 37 year old slugger, especially one who has shown signs of tailing off this year... his OBP since August is barely 300. I think you let him play out this last year for the Sox and potentially retire... with the importance this guy has had to the franchise, I can't imagine the front office even asking him if he would be open to a trade.

Dunn you have under contract for two more years at 15M a piece. He will be 33 and maybe will bat .200. This year really only looks good compared to the previous year with the exception of HRs. But the Cell is relatively HR friendly anyhow, so if he beats his previous totals by 2 or 3, I don't think that is going to make up for the 50 or so dropped points in OBP. I think this is a hard sell at 15M a year... you might be able to pick up some prospects for the guy, but I think you'd also need to pay some of the contract. Even then, he's a really unique player (almost the definition of a TTO guy) that a lot of GMs are going to pass on. And he can't play defense -- he's serviceable at first, but you can't play him regularly in the OF any longer. I don't see a lot of buyers here.

Rios has three years left... 12.5 M for the '13 and '14 seasons, and then a team option at 13.5 M with a 1 M buyout. Additionally, if they trade him, his salary is increased by 0.5M. His numbers this year have been great for him, especially compared to the previous year. He'll only be 32 next year, and you only have to pay him for a year after that, so you are in good shape there. I would guess this would come down to a decision that the '11 year was an aberration and you'd be getting numbers in line with this year. He can still play the corner OFs fairly well, and I don't think you'd see a huge backlash from the fanbase if they did move him. As an OF, I think you have more places that you could move him to, and could actually get a fair trade and reduce payroll.

I think you probably make A.J. an offer, but maybe won't end up resigning him. His power numbers are way up this year, but he's going to be 36 and he still has no arm throwing to 2nd. Youkilis is going to walk -- this isn't the team to give him 13M. I still think his acquisition was the best GM move of the year across MLB.... you got him for nothing and he replaced an obvious, glaring hole in your lineup. I still don't know what they are going to do next year at 3B, but I'd be surprised if Youk was the answer there. All of your other starters are young enough that they make no money, so you keep them all.... of course, you'd be open to trades for these guys, but you're not really going to get anything for them.

Pitching wise, you have to take the buyout on Peavy for 4M as opposed to giving him 22M. Danks is going to cost you 14.2M over the next four years. I don't think you can move him during the injury year, but maybe if he comes back with a good '13 campaign, you look at doing it then. He's only 28 next year, so he should be a moveable piece. Floyd has a 9.5M option... I don't really want to sign that one... he might be the definition of an average starting pitcher. I think that the Sox do have a lot of legitimate young pitching talent. Sale is probably untouchable, but I'd listen to offers for the other guys. Again, most of them cost you nothing so there's no urgency to move them, but I wouldn't turn down having a conversation about it.

_________________
"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

A.J. is doing what he does every year in September. Hitting a lot of weak ground balls to the right side.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

When you get down to it Dunn and Konerko have killed this team down the stretch. They just haven't produced the way middle of the order guys have to. Ventura's response to that has been to further cripple the offense with ill-advised strategy.

Viciedo hits a homer every 22 at-bats. Wise hits one every 25 at-bats. But I guarantee he can't hit one when he's bunting. Even if he could bunt like Nellie Fox, it's a bad idea. The fact that he's terrible at it makes it worse. He was lucky not to pop out and then he put himself in an 0-2 count. He isn't the kind of hitter to overcome that consistently. Besides that, what would make you think you could score a guy from second with the weak guys that were coming up? You had the bases loaded twice with no outs and struggled to push one across.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If only Earl Weaver could sit down with Robin, and tell him that there is nothing wrong with waiting for them big cocksuckers to hit the fucking ball out of the fucking park.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

These are tough choices.

Thankfully they'll be made after the Sox win the 2012 World Series.

_________________

I'm confused as to what someone would do with that many socks, yet alone an odd number of them.

There's no doubt that Ventura's approach has cost the Sox home runs. Whether it's six or ten, I don't know. And whether they would have fallen in the right spots to make a difference, I don't know either.

I don't like to make too much of managers because I think over the entire schedule the effect they have is pretty negligible. But when I start to look at specific situations it gets my blood boiling. And Ventura is definitely a guy who enjoys insinuating himself into games. Probably even more than Guillen did.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

One more thing. I always hated Guillen's "Sunday lineup". And that he would often rest key guys the day before an off day so they could have two in a row. I was happy that Ventura went with the same basic lineup pretty much day in and day out. But the truth might be that that caught up to them. This team looks worn out.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I see young talent throughout the bullpen including a closer. I see young talent in the starting rotation (albeit developing) including an ace. I see relatively young talent in the OF. Even an embattled guy like Beckham is a legitimate every day 2B in this league at 25.

This team is just fine. Lose Peavy and Liriano and replace them with Danks and let Santiago/Humber battle it out for the 5th spot. Sale, Danks, Floyd (I believe he has a market rate option), Quintana and Santiago is a SP staff I could live with. That is a nice staff +17 extra million.

Reed, Jones, Crain, Veal, Thornton, and Axelrod is a really good bullpen. Maybe you move Thornton but I would probably keep him for his last year.

Out of the everyday lineup Youklis and Pierzynski are possible losses. Youklis is a guy they should be able to re sign on the cheap. I think AJ is going to get a contract I would never recommend paying. Platoon at catcher and see what you have in Flowers. It sure looks like he has 20 HR power and has been good defensively. The rest of the lineup is fine.

They are poised to compete again next year with a nice balance of old and young

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Absolutely. Ventura must be better about getting bench players at bats. There was no reason AJ had to play every day in the second half when Flowers' bat came to life, especially with power. I think Lopez could have been a bigger contributor to this team. He can play multiple positions and hit with some power. Instead, we get Hudson out of some blind loyalty.

Management MUST get him better alternatives. At one point in the middle of the year, every single bench player was hitting under .200. You can see why Ventura was reluctant.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

dolphin, I agree with your thoughts on 2013, with the exception of the bullpen. I like Reed and Jones, but the rest of it I would not put much confidence in.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

When Santiago is good you can see why they made him the closer over Reed coming out of camp. He's a dominating guy that we haven't seen there since Jenks first came up. But if he can't stop walking every other batter it doesn't make any difference.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think because there have been disappointing, smaller crowds at U.S. Cellular Field this season, there will be quite a few high-priced veterans that have priced themselves out of the Southside. I really believe Jake Peavy pitched his last home game in a White Sox uniform last night vs. the Rays. I also believe A.J. Pierzynski has priced himself out, but I don't see him resurfacing across town with the Cubs.

Other high-priced veterans I think are on the way out...
*Gavin Floyd
*Francisco Liriano
*Kevin Youkilis
*Matt Thornton
*Brett Myers
*Orlando Hudson

The bullpen will be fine next year. The Sox have more power arms in the minors including LHP Santos Rodriguez who will have a spot in the bullpen next year. I think they'll give Santiago and Simon Castro a chance to compete for a rotation spot.

I believe the White Sox will give Hector Santiago every opportunity to win a starting job come Spring Training. There are 2 other guys currently at Triple "A" Charlotte that aren't here now, but whom the Sox might also give a long, hard look when they report to Glendale, AZ. They are catcher Josh Phegley & SS/2B Carlos Sanchez. Those 2 guys might actually have shots to make the 25-man roster when camp breaks.

Phegley is an option but if they go with Flowers as the everyday catcher I think they will sign a veteran catcher like Jose Molina/Kelly Shoppach to back him up.

Carlos Sanchez is an interesting player, SHARKY. He played 2B, SS and a little 3B at 3 levels in the minor leagues this year and they are sending him to the AFL. He probably needs another year in the minors but he looks to have a very bright future.

They need to H-bomb this bitch. I hate this team top to bottom.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Would you consider moving Addison Reed for a MLB IF (whether it's a 3B, SS or 2B) who is considered to be a either a good young MLB player with upsiide or a Top 5 type prospect on a team and move Nate Jones into the closer role?

My dad, who is a big White Sox fan, thinks Carlos Sanchez might be a candidate to become a utility infielder on the big club next year, quite possibly replacing the current duo of journeyman Ray Olmedo & Orlando Hudson in giving Alexei Ramirez a breather at SS & Gordon Beckham at 2B.

What does your dad's size have to do with anything?

_________________

?????

The White Sox, barring injury or a horrible spring training, have 3 starting pitchers - Chris Sale (#1), John Danks (who could be the #2, but should be the #4) and most likely Hector Santiago (#5) if he shows a pulse in spring training.

That leaves 2 open spots - they are on record as wanting Jake Peavy back. Gavin Floyd is under contract for around $9 million next season. Francisco Liriano is a free agent as well. I'm assuming that Gavin Floyd will be moved for a mid-level prospect this off-season to free up money and that Liriano won't be back as a primary option unless Peavy isn't resigned, even then, it may be unlikely. They do need to add a legitimate starting pitcher though if they lose Peavy and I'm sold that John Danks is that answer. The good news is that they have an ace. Now they need to find another legitimate starter if they lose Peavy and let Floyd go via trade.

If they don't bring AJ back, I think it's more likely that they go the veteran route with somebody to back up Flowers 2 days a week.

Your Dad could be right, SHARKY. The way I see it is if the Sox project him as an everyday player and top of the order hitter I'd like to see him playing everyday to continue his development. He's only 21 years old and there is no reason to rush him to the majors.