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The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=79312		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SHARK [ Mon May 20, 2013 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
With second baseman Gordon Beckham possibly back in uniform with the 25-man roster next weekend when the Miami Marlins visit U.S. Cellular Field and Conor Gillaspie getting more comfortable as the everyday third baseman for the White Sox, here's a question facing manager Robin Ventura moving forward. What will the Sox do with their high-priced offseason free agent acquisition Jeff Keppinger?

Even though the Sox technically got Keppinger to play 3B in the offseason, he's played more 2B with Beckham recovering from a hamate bone injury to his wrist suffered in Washington last month. Until this series with the Angels in Anaheim, Keppinger had a statistical oddity, a higher batting average than on-base percentage.

With 2 walks over the weekend in the 4 game split in Anaheim, Keppinger starts the night with a .197 BA, an OBP of .205 & 10 RBI's. Needless to say, it's not exactly what the Sox were hoping for when they signed him away from the Tampa Bay Rays this past winter. Might Keppinger, earning $3.5 million in the first of a 3 year, $12 million deal, suddenly find himself on RV's bench when Beckham possibly returns by the weekend, no longer an everyday starter? Might Keppinger suddenly become this team's new utility infielder?
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
He never strikes out!!!!

Think of the groundouts!!!
Author:  SHARK [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
rogers park bryan wrote:
He never strikes out!!!!

Think of the groundouts!!!

RP, that's part of the problem. Keppinger rarely struck out in Houston, San Francisco & Tampa Bay. He's already struck out 15 times with the White Sox in 147 at-bats.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
SHARK wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
He never strikes out!!!!

Think of the groundouts!!!

RP, that's part of the problem. Keppinger rarely struck out in Houston, San Francisco & Tampa Bay. He's already struck out 15 times with the White Sox in 147 at-bats.

I would argue that his low strikeout totals were WAY over valued

An out is an out is an out
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
rogers park bryan wrote:
I would argue that his low strikeout totals were WAY over valued

An out is an out is an out


Except when it's in a Kerry Wood game.

:P
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
rogers park bryan wrote:
An out is an out is an out
Which is why 27 of them in a row is better than anything else a pitcher can do on the mound.

SHARK, you probably could have posted about this in the Sox series thread. Keppinger doesn't deserve his own thread at this point.


Edit, damn you peeps! Damn you straight to Rockford!
Author:  SHARK [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
An out is an out is an out
Which is why 27 of them in a row is better than anything else a pitcher can do on the mound.

SHARK, you probably could have posted about this in the Sox series thread. Keppinger doesn't deserve his own thread at this point.


Edit, damn you peeps! Damn you straight to Rockford!

I thought Keppinger warranted his own thread, especially considering who's thisclose to returning. Besides, it's not a sure thing that 2B Gordon Beckham bats 9th again when he returns possibly this weekend.
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
He'll play 2nd, but might not hit 9th. Typically thats reserved for the worst hitter on the team which would be Tyler Flowers.
Author:  SHARK [ Mon May 20, 2013 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
He'll play 2nd, but might not hit 9th. Typically thats reserved for the worst hitter on the team which would be Tyler Flowers.

That's where Flowers has batted lately. Ditto for his backup, switch-hitting Hector Gimenez. I've also heard the #9 spot might also be where a manager might want a second lead-off hitter to turn over the lineup for the #1 guy.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon May 20, 2013 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
How is it even possible to have a lower OBP than BA?
Author:  SHARK [ Mon May 20, 2013 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
FavreFan wrote:
How is it even possible to have a lower OBP than BA?

Until he walked twice in the 4 game split in Anaheim, Jeff Keppinger had such an unusual statistical oddity. Keppinger's OBP was anywhere from 3 to 8 points below his batting average. It's still not great right now, but Keppinger no longer has such a statistical oddity.
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Mon May 20, 2013 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
SHARK wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
How is it even possible to have a lower OBP than BA?

Until he walked twice in the 4 game split in Anaheim, Jeff Keppinger had such an unusual statistical oddity. Keppinger's OBP was anywhere from 3 to 8 points below his batting average. It's still not great right now, but Keppinger no longer has such a statistical oddity.


Thanks for not answering the question.

To answer you FF, I think it has to do with sac flies.
Author:  FavreFan [ Mon May 20, 2013 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
SHARK wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
How is it even possible to have a lower OBP than BA?

Until he walked twice in the 4 game split in Anaheim, Jeff Keppinger had such an unusual statistical oddity. Keppinger's OBP was anywhere from 3 to 8 points below his batting average. It's still not great right now, but Keppinger no longer has such a statistical oddity.

I get that. I just don't know how that happens? How is it possible?
Author:  Rod [ Mon May 20, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
rogers park bryan wrote:
SHARK wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
He never strikes out!!!!

Think of the groundouts!!!

RP, that's part of the problem. Keppinger rarely struck out in Houston, San Francisco & Tampa Bay. He's already struck out 15 times with the White Sox in 147 at-bats.

I would argue that his low strikeout totals were WAY over valued

An out is an out is an out



That can't be true since the on base average resulting from batted balls is about .300. The on base average on missed balls is zero.
Author:  TurdFerguson [ Mon May 20, 2013 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
FavreFan wrote:
How is it even possible to have a lower OBP than BA?


BA looks at official at-bats to determine the %, so you would subtract errors, walks, HBP, and sacrifices.

OBP counts every time you step to the plate.

So this only happens when a players total walks + HBP is less than their sacrifices.
Author:  Rod [ Mon May 20, 2013 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
TurdFerguson wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
How is it even possible to have a lower OBP than BA?


BA looks at official at-bats to determine the %, so you would subtract errors, walks, HBP, and sacrifices.

OBP counts every time you step to the plate.

So this only happens when a players total walks + HBP is less than their sacrifices.


Not errors. Simply put BA uses at-bats and OBP uses plate appearances.
Author:  jimmypasta [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Good thing the Cubs didn't sign him.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Tue May 21, 2013 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Gordon Beckham (hand) started at shortstop Monday in his third rehab game with Triple-A Charlotte. Beckham is hitting .462 (6-for-13) with one double and two RBI over three rehab games and should be activated this weekend.

Interesting.......
Author:  SHARK [ Tue May 21, 2013 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Keyser Soze wrote:
Gordon Beckham (hand) started at shortstop Monday in his third rehab game with Triple-A Charlotte. Beckham is hitting .462 (6-for-13) with one double and two RBI over three rehab games and should be activated this weekend.

Interesting.......

Don't get too excited, Keyser. Gordon Beckham is a second baseman for the White Sox and when he returns, I expect him to play that position as soon as Friday vs. Miami barring any setbacks. He's fine where he is now.

A caller did ask Chris Rongey on the White Sox Radio Network postgame last night about Jeff Keppinger when Beckham does return to the active roster. Rongey suggested to the caller that Keppinger & Conor Gillaspie might platoon at 3B, with Jeffrey playing vs. lefties & Conor vs. righties.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue May 21, 2013 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Terry's Peeps wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I would argue that his low strikeout totals were WAY over valued

An out is an out is an out


Except when it's in a Kerry Wood game.

:P

Batters out vs pitchers out
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue May 21, 2013 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
An out is an out is an out
Which is why 27 of them in a row is better than anything else a pitcher can do on the mound.

Nope. Different for pitchers.

27 strikeouts is better than 27 robbed homeruns
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue May 21, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
SHARK wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
He never strikes out!!!!

Think of the groundouts!!!

RP, that's part of the problem. Keppinger rarely struck out in Houston, San Francisco & Tampa Bay. He's already struck out 15 times with the White Sox in 147 at-bats.

I would argue that his low strikeout totals were WAY over valued

An out is an out is an out



That can't be true since the on base average resulting from batted balls is about .300. The on base average on missed balls is zero.

Yeah, I misspoke.

A hitter who has low strikeout totals is not more valuable then a player with higher strikeout totals

It comes down to on base
Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Tue May 21, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Except that neither of those has ever happened.

So pretty much an out is an out unless its a Carrie Woods game.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue May 21, 2013 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Except that neither of those has ever happened.

So pretty much an out is an out unless its a Carrie Woods game.

No, I look at batters outs made and pitchers outs recorded differently. Always have and its in those threads.

A guy who misses 60 bats is more dominating than a guy that misses like 20. That is my belief.
Author:  Apologist [ Tue May 21, 2013 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Now I might be out of line with this thinking, that $3.5M isn't absurd for a utility guy.

If Robin feels the alignment that gives him the best chance to win is Bacon at 2B and Gillaspie at 3B, i don't see why there would be any issue with that.
Author:  SHARK [ Tue May 21, 2013 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The $3.5 Million Utility Man?
Apologist wrote:
Now I might be out of line with this thinking, that $3.5M isn't absurd for a utility guy.

If Robin feels the alignment that gives him the best chance to win is Bacon at 2B and Gillaspie at 3B, i don't see why there would be any issue with that.

If I'm RV, that's what I would do once Beckham is activated. Angel Sanchez, still on the DL with back issues and on a rehab assignment of his own, or Tyler Greene, who doubled and scored last night...That's the next question.
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