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Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread
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Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

no trolling allowed

What would you like to talk about?

Author:  IMU [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Is this year's current W-L record related to Robin Ventura's inability to manage games in any way? I know he is a terrible manager, but don't watch many full 9 inning White Sox games.

I see Abreu, Beckham, Ramirez, Gillaspie ...hell even Dunn...they're producing better than what I would have expected before the season. The bullpen has been disgusting, but the starting pitching has been at least decent or better.

Are the White Sox where they are because the balance of the players are still under performing, or is it bad luck, or does Ventura really mess up that many games?

Author:  Brick [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

immessedup17 wrote:
Is this year's current W-L record related to Robin Ventura's inability to manage games in any way? I know he is a terrible manager, but don't watch many full 9 inning White Sox games.

I see Abreu, Beckham, Ramirez, Gillaspie ...hell even Dunn...they're producing better than what I would have expected before the season. The bullpen has been disgusting, but the starting pitching has been at least decent or better.

Are the White Sox where they are because the balance of the players are still under performing, or is it bad luck, or does Ventura really mess up that many games?
The Sox seem to be in a period of transition where they have locked down or at least stabalized many positions, but they have glaring weaknesses at others that need to be addressed with money, time, and prayers.

Robin also has to go, but it probably won't fix much if they continue to have such glaring weaknesses.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

What are the thoughts on Viciedo?

Author:  Rod [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

rogers park bryan wrote:
What are the thoughts on Viciedo?


First guy to go. And soon.

Author:  IMU [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Has Ventura, in Sox fans' eyes, shown an ability to develop or help the younger players? I mean...I think Renteria is decent at game management, but I believe he and his staff are one of the reasons Castro and Rizzo are doing better this year.

Is Ventura, at the minimum, at least a decent "A to B" guy...and then you bring a real manager in when young player development isn't as key?

Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

I think my feeling on field managers is well known: the overwhelming majority have pretty close to a zero impact on record over a career. They are essentially fungible items to me. That is why I think you can safely fire one every five years as you may be able to find one of those unique guys who has an impact but should do no worse than a guy who will have no impact.

Robin makes moves that are damaging over the long haul with his use and warming up of the bullpen. He unnecessarily opened the possibility of injury to Sale. He also makes moves that are illogical like a few weeks ago benching Dunn against some top pitcher who he traditionally kills. Still, I don't think he has resulted in many losses.

Author:  Brick [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

immessedup17 wrote:
Has Ventura, in Sox fans' eyes, shown an ability to develop or help the younger players? I mean...I think Renteria is decent at game management, but I believe he and his staff are one of the reasons Castro and Rizzo are doing better this year.

Is Ventura, at the minimum, at least a decent "A to B" guy...and then you bring a real manager in when young player development isn't as key?
Ventura hasn't even shown an ability to develop himself. The kid from Little Big League seemed to improve more than Robin has.

Author:  IMU [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Sox Fans: 2015 Free Agents...what should Hahn's top targets be? Players or positions?

Bullpen is an obvious answer, but also a cheap-ish fix.

Sox need to upgrade in the offseason...

Catcher
Left Field
DH
Third Base (?)

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
What are the thoughts on Viciedo?


First guy to go. And soon.

Why?

Sometimes he looks like a monster. I havent watched closely enough though

Author:  IMU [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

I believe you need to double check your acronyms, Bryan.

8)

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

immessedup17 wrote:
I believe you need to double check your acronyms, Bryan.

8)

I have many non trolling discussions here.

And Ive already been answered, so too late.

Author:  Hussra [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

1 run games provide a weak proxy for manager performance.

In 1 run games this season:

Ausmus's 15-10
Ventura's 17-13
Francona's 14-12
Gardenhire's 14-15
Yost's 9-16

White Sox are 3 games under in the division. 7-3 vs Indians, 2-5 Twins, 4-5 Tigers, 3-6 Royals.

White Sox are 11-8 vs the AL East, but 6-12 vs the AL West (1-5 vs the Angels)

10-8 in interleague.

Luckily, the White Sox are done playing the Angels for the season. They have to step it up vs teams in the AL Central to have any chance.

Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

immessedup17 wrote:
Sox Fans: 2015 Free Agents...what should Hahn's top targets be? Players or positions?

Bullpen is an obvious answer, but also a cheap-ish fix.

Sox need to upgrade in the offseason...

Catcher
Left Field
DH
Third Base (?)


Third Base? The second year guy hitting .315 with improved defense not getting it done for you?

1. LF
2. Bullpen- but that is true of about 90% of the teams in MLB every off season
3. back of the rotation RH veteran

I think next year they have to give Phegley another shot behind the plate. He is having a nice year at AAA and was brought up into a pretty bad situation last year. Nieto goes down for another year of seasoning. Flowers moves to backup.

Author:  WestmontMike [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

A weak bullpen will make the best manager look bad. While I don’t have any evidence to suggest Robin Ventura is a great manager, I also don’t believe the team is worse off with him in the manager role. At least not this year.
I really think Rick Hahn wanted one more year of low expectations, but if Garcia comes back this year and shows he can be a major contributor, I think we’ll see how much power Kenny Williams has because he’d absolutely try to make a push this off season. A solid bullpen can be built in one off-season and the division isn’t exactly strong. That said, I still think they’d give Robin one more year before they promote him to VP of off the field baseball operations.

Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Hussra wrote:
1 run games provide a weak proxy for manager performance.

In 1 run games this season:

Ausmus's 15-10
Ventura's 17-13
Francona's 14-12
Gardenhire's 14-15
Yost's 9-16

White Sox are 3 games under in the division. 7-3 vs Indians, 2-5 Twins, 4-5 Tigers, 3-6 Royals.

White Sox are 11-8 vs the AL East, but 6-12 vs the AL West (1-5 vs the Angels)

10-8 in interleague.

Luckily, the White Sox are done playing the Angels for the season. They have to step it up vs teams in the AL Central to have any chance.


Sox have a winning record against >.500 teams. They have a losing record against <.500 teams. That's the inconsistency you would expect from a youth based group. The record against winning teams instills some hope because these young guys can compete.

Author:  Kirkwood [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

How will the holes in the rotation be addressed?
Alexei Ramirez is 32 and has one more year. What's the plan to address the future of SS?
Hahn had indicated Beckham can be had. What will happen 2B if he's sent away?
Gillaspie is a career .265. Is it time to sell high on a 3B who doesn't hit for power with Davidson a guy Hahn targted in AAA?
Where will the power come if Viciedo is traded to Seattle or wherever?
What is the plan for the catching position? Is it time to just move forward with Nieto and scrap Flowers?
July 18th is ten days away and Rodon negotiations have been very quiet. Is there any worry he won't sign?

Author:  IMU [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

good dolphin wrote:
Third Base? The second year guy hitting .315 with improved defense not getting it done for you?

1. LF
2. Bullpen- but that is true of about 90% of the teams in MLB every off season
3. back of the rotation RH veteran

I think next year they have to give Phegley another shot behind the plate. He is having a nice year at AAA and was brought up into a pretty bad situation last year. Nieto goes down for another year of seasoning. Flowers moves to backup.

Don't worry about what I think - I want to know what you think, which I guess I now do.

3B is traditionally a position where a bit of power comes from. Gillaspie has one. I didn't know if perhaps it could be destined for 2B or SS...based on a couple points in Kirkwood's post.

Author:  Rod [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
What are the thoughts on Viciedo?


First guy to go. And soon.

Why?

Sometimes he looks like a monster. I havent watched closely enough though


I think he's the kind of right-handed power bat that can bring something in return. Seattle has been scouting the hell out of him and he's hot right now. It seems the Sox are trying to get younger and more athletic. If they keep him I would expect to see him at DH a lot next season.

Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Kirkwood wrote:
Gillaspie is a career .265. Is it time to sell high on a 3B who doesn't hit for power with Davidson a guy Hahn targted in AAA??


He hits for power, just not home run power. He is not some slap singles hitter. His career is 1.5 years old.

Author:  Hussra [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Trade Beckham to NY for either Francisco Cervelli or Gary Sanchez + prospects.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

good dolphin wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Gillaspie is a career .265. Is it time to sell high on a 3B who doesn't hit for power with Davidson a guy Hahn targted in AAA??


He hits for power, just not home run power. He is not some slap singles hitter. His career is 1.5 years old.

70% of his hits are singles and he's 70th in MLB in slugging

Author:  good dolphin [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

immessedup17 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Third Base? The second year guy hitting .315 with improved defense not getting it done for you?

1. LF
2. Bullpen- but that is true of about 90% of the teams in MLB every off season
3. back of the rotation RH veteran

I think next year they have to give Phegley another shot behind the plate. He is having a nice year at AAA and was brought up into a pretty bad situation last year. Nieto goes down for another year of seasoning. Flowers moves to backup.

Don't worry about what I think - I want to know what you think, which I guess I now do.

3B is traditionally a position where a bit of power comes from. Gillaspie has one. I didn't know if perhaps it could be destined for 2B or SS...based on a couple points in Kirkwood's post.


He has 19 doubles and 3 triples while missing a month.

I'd love more HR but he is not a guy who you can play shallow against

Author:  Rod [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Kirkwood wrote:
How will the holes in the rotation be addressed? They won't be this season. I'm hopeful they can move Danks and then bring in a top of the rotation righty for next year. and they should have Rodon.
Alexei Ramirez is 32 and has one more year. What's the plan to address the future of SS? That's a good question. If they trade him Leury Garcia would be a stop gap. (On days he isn't pitching.) They'll have to find one somewhere.
Hahn had indicated Beckham can be had. What will happen 2B if he's sent away? Micah Johnson is the heir apparent there. He's going to get his chance. Who knows if he can hit? But the Sox love silly ball and they'll have him running all over the place. Maybe not such a bad thing in the Strikeout Era.
Gillaspie is a career .265. Is it time to sell high on a 3B who doesn't hit for power with Davidson a guy Hahn targted in AAA? I would move him in a second if you could. Unfortunately I don't think you can really sell him high right now.
Where will the power come if Viciedo is traded to Seattle or wherever? They'll have to find an outfielder with power. Ideally he'd be left-handed.
What is the plan for the catching position? Is it time to just move forward with Nieto and scrap Flowers? I'd get rid of them both if possible. I guess Nieto is an okay back-up. Flowers is not a big league player. Good catchers are hard to come by.
July 18th is ten days away and Rodon negotiations have been very quiet. Is there any worry he won't sign? I don't see how he isn't going to sign. They're probably going to have to make him the highest paid guy in the class though.

Author:  Bagels [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
What are the thoughts on Viciedo?


First guy to go. And soon.

Why?

Sometimes he looks like a monster. I havent watched closely enough though


I think he's the kind of right-handed power bat that can bring something in return. Seattle has been scouting the hell out of him and he's hot right now. It seems the Sox are trying to get younger and more athletic. If they keep him I would expect to see him at DH a lot next season.


yeah i would get rid of him in a heartbeat

Author:  FavreFan [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

3B is set.

Author:  denisdman [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

I wanted to make this thread:

Sex Fans Welcome IMU to Discussion Thread

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

Gillaspie read the shit talk on here. We're good at 3B

Author:  good dolphin [ Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

His SLG% is now just slightly above Hanley Ramirez and Yoenis Cespedes and slightly below Texiera

Author:  IMU [ Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sox Fans Welcome IMU To Discussion Thread

The kid is alright. Yeah - I'd be in no rush to find a replacement for him.

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