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Ventura: Manager of the Year
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Author:  Hatchetman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Ventura: Manager of the Year
Right now Sox are playing at a .460 clip.
Pythagoras has them as a .380 team.

Over the course of the year, that's a 13 game difference!
Author:  denisdman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
What did Pyth say about Shark?
Author:  bigfan [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
"Samardzija is projected to be barely above replacement level"

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2015/1/29/7945803/2015-mlb-projections-pecota
Author:  bigfan [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
I understand kenny thinks all the Pecota stuff is stoopid.

But when you disregard everyones projections because your gut tells you something else? Well....?

And if you wish to blame Hahn, you can, but do you think he disregarded all the numbers?
Author:  Hatchetman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Hahn's been Asst GM for what, a decade at least. He deserves his fair share of the blame. The Sox have Bear's disease. Can't fucking draft.
Author:  denisdman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
The Sox made good moves the last few off seasons. The guy's just aren't performing.
Author:  Juiced [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Hatchetman wrote:
Hahn's been Asst GM for what, a decade at least. He deserves his fair share of the blame. The Sox have Bear's disease. Can't fucking draft.


That Sale guy is pretty good. Other then that Gio Gonzalez is the only other first round pick since the last of the 80's that was any good. :shock:

87-90
Mcdowell, Ventura, F. Thomas, A.Fernandez. :drunken:

90's was a whole lot of bad.

K.Williams was smart to trade away the crap he drafted in the 00's. Should have kept G. Gonzalez, but with Kenny's draft history being shit, why take the chance.
Author:  Juiced [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
denisdman wrote:
The Sox made good moves the last few off seasons. The guy's just aren't performing.


If they don't perform they are not good moves.

Like the neighborhood whore at a kids party.
Author:  Hatchetman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Larry Himes wasn't a good communicator.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Hatchetman wrote:
Hahn's been Asst GM for what, a decade at least. He deserves his fair share of the blame. The Sox have Bear's disease. Can't fucking draft.


When were they a draft-centric team? I thought Kenny's MO for the most part has been crafty trades and discount free agent acquisitions.
Author:  Seacrest [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
veganfan21 wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Hahn's been Asst GM for what, a decade at least. He deserves his fair share of the blame. The Sox have Bear's disease. Can't fucking draft.


When were they a draft-centric team? I thought Kenny's MO for the most part has been crafty trades and discount free agent acquisitions.


Yeah.

That's exactly what you turn to when you can't draft well.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
I thought the focus on staying above water to have a shot at the playoffs meant conceding better draft positioning. Not that you can't draft well in mid rounds but mediocrity (a consequence of the philosophy, but so was 2005) means no shot at the highly touted players.
Author:  Cicero Dave [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
But Courtney Hawkins!
Author:  denisdman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Juiced wrote:
denisdman wrote:
The Sox made good moves the last few off seasons. The guy's just aren't performing.


If they don't perform they are not good moves.

Like the neighborhood whore at a kids party.


I don't agree with that logic. You have to look at the decision making process at the point in time at which it was made. If players don't perform up to their average, then that's on the players.

Under your logic, a coach that calls for a chip shot field goal that is missed by the kicker should have went for it on fourth down.
Author:  Juiced [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
denisdman wrote:
Juiced wrote:
denisdman wrote:
The Sox made good moves the last few off seasons. The guy's just aren't performing.


If they don't perform they are not good moves.

Like the neighborhood whore at a kids party.


I don't agree with that logic. You have to look at the decision making process at the point in time at which it was made. If players don't perform up to their average, then that's on the players.

Under your logic, a coach that calls for a chip shot field goal that is missed by the kicker should have went for it on fourth down.


Under my logic, you don't sign a high price field goal kicker, when you needed a stud QB.

Stud QB throws a TD and the field goal kicker never has to attempt the chip shot.

Example: Without Brady, there is no Vinatieri winning kick. Brady led his team down the field to set up kicker Adam Vinatieri's game-winning 48-yard field goal.

The Whitesox signed a bunch of Vinateri's and are left watching it go "wide left"
Author:  denisdman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
You're letting the results dictate whether the right decision was made.

Blackjack, you always stand on 17. Just because the next card out of the shoe is a four, does not mean you should have hit. You have to look at the decision making process unless you have a time machine. They paid a fair price for Shark. LaRoche has a good bat. They signed a few solid bullpen arms. Melky, I probably would have avoided, but they were trying to fill a need. I loved the acquisitions of Abreu and Eaton the prior year. The fact that guys get hurt or under perform will of course get blamed on Hahn and Ventura, but I refuse to go back in history and blame them. Those are solid acquisitions at prices the Sox can afford.
Author:  pittmike [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
denisdman wrote:
You're letting the results dictate whether the right decision was made.

Blackjack, you always stand on 17. Just because the next card out of the shoe is a four, does not mean you should have hit. You have to look at the decision making process unless you have a time machine. They paid a fair price for Shark. LaRoche has a good bat. They signed a few solid bullpen arms. Melky, I probably would have avoided, but they were trying to fill a need. I loved the acquisitions of Abreu and Eaton the prior year. The fact that guys get hurt or under perform will of course get blamed on Hahn and Ventura, but I refuse to go back in history and blame them. Those are solid acquisitions at prices the Sox can afford.



Sensible.
Author:  badrogue17 [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
pittmike wrote:
denisdman wrote:
You're letting the results dictate whether the right decision was made.

Blackjack, you always stand on 17. Just because the next card out of the shoe is a four, does not mean you should have hit. You have to look at the decision making process unless you have a time machine. They paid a fair price for Shark. LaRoche has a good bat. They signed a few solid bullpen arms. Melky, I probably would have avoided, but they were trying to fill a need. I loved the acquisitions of Abreu and Eaton the prior year. The fact that guys get hurt or under perform will of course get blamed on Hahn and Ventura, but I refuse to go back in history and blame them. Those are solid acquisitions at prices the Sox can afford.



Sensible.

I thought theyd be much better than they've shown this year as well.
Author:  good dolphin [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Pythagorus calculated the size of the earth with the most rudimentary of tools available to him and his reward is to have some irrelevant, non predictive predictor named in his honor.
Author:  Juiced [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
denisdman wrote:
You're letting the results dictate whether the right decision was made.

Blackjack, you always stand on 17. Just because the next card out of the shoe is a four, does not mean you should have hit. You have to look at the decision making process unless you have a time machine. They paid a fair price for Shark. LaRoche has a good bat. They signed a few solid bullpen arms. Melky, I probably would have avoided, but they were trying to fill a need. I loved the acquisitions of Abreu and Eaton the prior year. The fact that guys get hurt or under perform will of course get blamed on Hahn and Ventura, but I refuse to go back in history and blame them. Those are solid acquisitions at prices the Sox can afford.


But, your not standing on 17. You are standing on 16 and that is a risk when the dealer shows a face card.

You had Scherzer, Lester, Shields, Liriano(who you let go), Hammel, A.Miller, Volquez, to pick from this year and you end up trading a decent position player Seman 2B for Shark. The same Shark who has never proven he could be a winning pitcher and just got done shitting the bed for OAK that cost them a trip to the playoffs. You had all star talent in the FA market and you end up with an average rent-a-player AND give up a young prospect from a very thin pool. BAD MOVE

Would you rather have LaRoche or: Morales? LaRoche or N.Cruz, LaRoche or Tomas, Sandoval, H.Ramirez. How good would R.Martin look in a WhiteSox uniform? Nope, Whitesox went cheap and get cheap production. BAD MOVE

Robertson and Cabrera both signed for around 44MIL. 88MIL gets you everyone listed above minus Lester and Scherzer. BAD MOVE

Dealer turns a 9 and you lose.
Author:  Hatchetman [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
35 years one pennant.
Author:  KDdidit [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Juiced wrote:
denisdman wrote:
You're letting the results dictate whether the right decision was made.

Blackjack, you always stand on 17. Just because the next card out of the shoe is a four, does not mean you should have hit. You have to look at the decision making process unless you have a time machine. They paid a fair price for Shark. LaRoche has a good bat. They signed a few solid bullpen arms. Melky, I probably would have avoided, but they were trying to fill a need. I loved the acquisitions of Abreu and Eaton the prior year. The fact that guys get hurt or under perform will of course get blamed on Hahn and Ventura, but I refuse to go back in history and blame them. Those are solid acquisitions at prices the Sox can afford.


But, your not standing on 17. You are standing on 16 and that is a risk when the dealer shows a face card.

You had Scherzer, Lester, Shields, Liriano(who you let go), Hammel, A.Miller, Volquez, to pick from this year and you end up trading a decent position player Seman 2B for Shark. The same Shark who has never proven he could be a winning pitcher and just got done shitting the bed for OAK that cost them a trip to the playoffs. You had all star talent in the FA market and you end up with an average rent-a-player AND give up a young prospect from a very thin pool. BAD MOVE

Would you rather have LaRoche or: Morales? LaRoche or N.Cruz, LaRoche or Tomas, Sandoval, H.Ramirez. How good would R.Martin look in a WhiteSox uniform? Nope, Whitesox went cheap and get cheap production. BAD MOVE

Robertson and Cabrera both signed for around 44MIL. 88MIL gets you everyone listed above minus Lester and Scherzer. BAD MOVE

Dealer turns a 9 and you lose.


The Sox were 73-89 last year, I think a better blackjack analogy would be they split 6s and doubled down.
Author:  Juiced [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
KDdidit wrote:
Juiced wrote:
denisdman wrote:
You're letting the results dictate whether the right decision was made.

Blackjack, you always stand on 17. Just because the next card out of the shoe is a four, does not mean you should have hit. You have to look at the decision making process unless you have a time machine. They paid a fair price for Shark. LaRoche has a good bat. They signed a few solid bullpen arms. Melky, I probably would have avoided, but they were trying to fill a need. I loved the acquisitions of Abreu and Eaton the prior year. The fact that guys get hurt or under perform will of course get blamed on Hahn and Ventura, but I refuse to go back in history and blame them. Those are solid acquisitions at prices the Sox can afford.


But, your not standing on 17. You are standing on 16 and that is a risk when the dealer shows a face card.

You had Scherzer, Lester, Shields, Liriano(who you let go), Hammel, A.Miller, Volquez, to pick from this year and you end up trading a decent position player Seman 2B for Shark. The same Shark who has never proven he could be a winning pitcher and just got done shitting the bed for OAK that cost them a trip to the playoffs. You had all star talent in the FA market and you end up with an average rent-a-player AND give up a young prospect from a very thin pool. BAD MOVE

Would you rather have LaRoche or: Morales? LaRoche or N.Cruz, LaRoche or Tomas, Sandoval, H.Ramirez. How good would R.Martin look in a WhiteSox uniform? Nope, Whitesox went cheap and get cheap production. BAD MOVE

Robertson and Cabrera both signed for around 44MIL. 88MIL gets you everyone listed above minus Lester and Scherzer. BAD MOVE

Dealer turns a 9 and you lose.


The Sox were 73-89 last year, I think a better blackjack analogy would be they split 6s and doubled down.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I actually witnessed someone doing that in Vegas last year.
Author:  bigfan [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Hatchetman wrote:
Hahn's been Asst GM for what, a decade at least. He deserves his fair share of the blame. The Sox have Bear's disease. Can't fucking draft.


He SHOULD be getting all the blame this year if someone stayed away, I would agree HAHN should be blamed.

Kenny= Jay Leno
Author:  Matches Malone [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
bigfan wrote:
Kenny= Jay Leno


I always thought Cameo or Steve Harvey's cousin.
Author:  BigW72 [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Kenny / Hahn are paid to look at the next season and know if they'll perform or not. That's their job.

They have not done it very well in the last several years.
Author:  Kirkwood [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
No Ventura...swept. Add Hatchet's comment where Fangraphs' BaseRuns calculation say the Sox "should" be a 23-38 team and they're at 28-33 after the TB series.

Ventura has these guys overachieving!
Author:  312player [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Anybody expecting Shark to be a #2 for a full season is just fooling them self . the guy is 30 years old and has a proven track record. He's not good, never been good n never will be.

Melkman and Eaton - bad ... HAHN should have known that.

Bringing back that scrub Beckham..dumb , cut ties with guys who can't hit .


Laroche is a career N.L. hack ... He's 35 ...should have seen his career numbers are going to trend down not up...and he wasn't real good in his prime.

The good news for The Sox is Sale , Quintana and Rodon could be the best rotation in the A.L. next year ..gotta get legit bats and legit skipper.
Author:  Elmhurst Steve [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
312player wrote:
Anybody expecting Shark to be a #2 for a full season is just fooling them self . the guy is 30 years old and has a proven track record. He's not good, never been good n never will be.

Melkman and Eaton - bad ... HAHN should have known that.

Bringing back that scrub Beckham..dumb , cut ties with guys who can't hit .


Laroche is a career N.L. hack ... He's 35 ...should have seen his career numbers are going to trend down not up...and he wasn't real good in his prime.

The good news for The Sox is Sale , Quintana and Rodon could be the best rotation in the A.L. next year ..gotta get legit bats and legit skipper.


I agree with you about everything in your post except Beckham.
Author:  Darkside [ Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ventura: Manager of the Year
Why not let Sale finish this one off? He was magnificent tonight.
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