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All Star Break
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=94937		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  good dolphin [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  All Star Break
they are four games below .500 at this point. They are better than two other teams in the AL. Any other season this would be enough for fans to be screaming to sell. The optimism I am seeing is strange and misguided. It is highly unusual for a team below .500 at this point in the season to make the playoffs. This season is done.

Sell. If KW comes in to discuss acquiring a veteran, ship him and Samardzija to Toronto
Author:  Gloopan Kuratz [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
They've had an awful good run lately.

I try to re-up Shark. Not sure they would get much for him, by dumping him.

Would love to dump Duck Commander LaRoche. Beckham or Alexi....
Author:  Hatchetman [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Stud or no trade.
Author:  billypootons [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
sell it all. guess how many games the white sox are behind in the wild card... 5.5.... wasnt that the same number of games before the "hot streak" started?

when are they going to fire the development people like doug laumann, buddy bell etc.? for years your minor leagues have produced nothing...
Author:  Nas [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
good dolphin wrote:
they are four games below .500 at this point. They are better than two other teams in the AL. Any other season this would be enough for fans to be screaming to sell. The optimism I am seeing is strange and misguided. It is highly unusual for a team below .500 at this point in the season to make the playoffs. This season is done.

Sell. If KW comes in to discuss acquiring a veteran, ship him and Samardzija to Toronto


The future doesn't look as bright as it did in March. They may have to start over. At the very least you have to fire the manager.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
It's going down to the deadline. If they come out of the break and shit the bed against KC and Cleveland it will be an easy decision but if they play well they may as well keep the team together and go for it. The Twins and Astros currently hold down the two wildcard spots so it's not like they're chasing a runaway train and none of the other teams put the fear of God in you either.
Author:  Hawg Ass [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
they are four games below .500 at this point. They are better than two other teams in the AL. Any other season this would be enough for fans to be screaming to sell. The optimism I am seeing is strange and misguided. It is highly unusual for a team below .500 at this point in the season to make the playoffs. This season is done.

Sell. If KW comes in to discuss acquiring a veteran, ship him and Samardzija to Toronto


The future doesn't look as bright as it did in March. They may have to start over. At the very least you have to fire the manager.

The reverse troll, I like it.
Author:  Juiced [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
They've had an awful good run lately.

I try to re-up Shark. Not sure they would get much for him, by dumping him.

Would love to dump Duck Commander LaRoche. Beckham or Alexi....


Grote was with Mully this morning and actually thought the Sox could get one of the Cubs top prospects. He said they should be able to get Kyle Schwarber,or Addison Russell. :lol: :lol: :lol: This idiot claims to be a Sox fan, but doesn't remember the Sox only gave up seimen for Shark. No way in hell the Cubs give up a top prospect.
Author:  good dolphin [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
The team cannot score and I don't see it getting better. There is no way the pitching staff can continue this sub 2 ERA run. How do you expect to catch up to teams when the pitching returns to merely being good?
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
good dolphin wrote:
The team cannot score and I don't see it getting better. There is no way the pitching staff can continue this sub 2 ERA run. How do you expect to catch up to teams when the pitching returns to merely being good?

Warm weather. A couple days of homers from guys like LaRoche and Melky.


You fuckers are ALL IN, baby! (as if KW knows any other way)
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
good dolphin wrote:
The team cannot score and I don't see it getting better. There is no way the pitching staff can continue this sub 2 ERA run. How do you expect to catch up to teams when the pitching returns to merely being good?

Aramis Ramirez to the rescue!
Author:  Gloopan Kuratz [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Melky has come around.

The pitching staff is pretty good. Don't see a reason to sell off pitching, even Shark.
Author:  sjboyd0137 [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Melky has come around.

The pitching staff is pretty good. Don't see a reason to sell off pitching, even Shark.

Danks?
Author:  Gloopan Kuratz [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
5th starter. Who cares. Gets 5 innings.
Author:  sjboyd0137 [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
5th starter. Who cares. Gets 5 innings.

I'd rather see him gone for a right handed 5th starter to balance the rotation a little.
Author:  BD [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
good dolphin wrote:
they are four games below .500 at this point. They are better than two other teams in the AL. Any other season this would be enough for fans to be screaming to sell. The optimism I am seeing is strange and misguided. It is highly unusual for a team below .500 at this point in the season to make the playoffs. This season is done.

Sell. If KW comes in to discuss acquiring a veteran, ship him and Samardzija to Toronto


That's what they should do especially if there is young talent to be had for Samardzija. I do worry that his upcoming free agency, meaning he has 12 starts or so with a new team will mean the return for him is less than exciting and the Sox brass doesn't want to admit that the season is over in July by making a move.
Author:  BD [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
They've had an awful good run lately.

I try to re-up Shark. Not sure they would get much for him, by dumping him.

Would love to dump Duck Commander LaRoche. Beckham or Alexi....


He's said repeatedly, he won't resign during the season and wants to become a free agent.

LaRoche can probably be moved, but the White Sox may have to pay some of that remaining salary and/or get nothing in return.
Author:  BD [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Keyser Soze wrote:
It's going down to the deadline. If they come out of the break and shit the bed against KC and Cleveland it will be an easy decision but if they play well they may as well keep the team together and go for it. The Twins and Astros currently hold down the two wildcard spots so it's not like they're chasing a runaway train and none of the other teams put the fear of God in you either.


They could chase down a wildcard leader IF you thought the White Sox were a good team. Half of the season has shown that they are an average team, at best. The starting rotation is good and can be very good at times. The bullpen is improved over last season, but the middle relief still has some issues. The hitting is awful. They need a legitimate #4 and #5 hitter in this lineup, and that doesn't exist on the roster. It's hard to see them having a sustained streak in the 2nd half with an offense this bad.
Author:  good dolphin [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Sox have options in the minors for a fifth starter. I don't mind starting Danks and letting Carroll clean up for him.
Author:  BD [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Juiced wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
They've had an awful good run lately.

I try to re-up Shark. Not sure they would get much for him, by dumping him.

Would love to dump Duck Commander LaRoche. Beckham or Alexi....


Grote was with Mully this morning and actually thought the Sox could get one of the Cubs top prospects. He said they should be able to get Kyle Schwarber,or Addison Russell. :lol: :lol: :lol: This idiot claims to be a Sox fan, but doesn't remember the Sox only gave up seimen for Shark. No way in hell the Cubs give up a top prospect.


That doesn't seem likely. In fact, that seems to be completely unrealistic to get either Schwarber or Russell in any deal.

If the Cubs are down on Baez, maybe there's a chance there, but it's hard to see the Cubs giving up a ton for a impending free agent. I think they'd want to know he's going to be on the team for the future, which he won't commit to.
Author:  conns7901 [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Keyser Soze wrote:
It's going down to the deadline. If they come out of the break and shit the bed against KC and Cleveland it will be an easy decision but if they play well they may as well keep the team together and go for it. The Twins and Astros currently hold down the two wildcard spots so it's not like they're chasing a runaway train and none of the other teams put the fear of God in you either.



Well you still have to pass 7 teams to get to the wild card.
Author:  America [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
I dont want to sell for guys who have to remain in the minors. I'll be upset if they sacrifice guys in the big league team right now for guys with ETA's past opening day 2016. I just dont want to play that game, the pitching is going to really be something next season with or without Samardzija (though probably much better with) and it'd be pretty stupid to waste years of Chris Sale rebuilding.

So, how do the Sox overhaul the position player calamity without trading Sale, Quintana or Rodon? Bonus points for holding onto Samardzija, also. Does it require they gut the farm (again) which means the top Top-50ish guys the Sox have now (Anderson solid, Montas fringe) are gone and our new #1 prospect is either Michalczewski or Fulmer? Id hope not.

The Sox are not in a position to acquire the best players whether they are sellers or buyers, but they can keep all their valuable pieces in the system if they instead look for the right players. There is no appreciable difference between buying to make a long-shot run at this year and beginning the 2015 offseason now to make a run at it in 2016, at least to me.
Author:  Keyser Soze [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
conns7901 wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
It's going down to the deadline. If they come out of the break and shit the bed against KC and Cleveland it will be an easy decision but if they play well they may as well keep the team together and go for it. The Twins and Astros currently hold down the two wildcard spots so it's not like they're chasing a runaway train and none of the other teams put the fear of God in you either.



Well you still have to pass 7 teams to get to the wild card.

3 in the loss column.
Author:  America [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Fixing the position player mess,

OK, so let's start with what is good:
Jose Abreu

Right, let's move on to what should be kept because it will probably be good again:
Adam Eaton

Great, now let's look at guys who still have a high likelihood of failure but at least are at stages in their career where continued playing time may lead to something good:
Avisail Garcia

That's the extent of positives and potential-positives on the White Sox. These are the guys the Sox should keep because they want to. It's a very sad list. But, considering the black holes the Sox have everywhere else these are the spots you can at least look at and say "OK, it may not all be great but it doesn't need to be replaced RIGHT NOW." These are the players you want to structure your goals around. My goals for them are as follows:

Adam Eaton: Above average producer.
Jose Abreu: Primary run producer.
Avisail Garcia: Solid 7-hole hitter.

Abreu is doing his job now. He recieves no protection in the lineup, has nobody on base when he's batting but still makes it work. He isn't having a sophomore slump, he's just alone. I'm just going to cross him off the list.

Eaton and Avi have had odd seasons, and its leading me to believe (esp in the case of Eaton) they are miscast. Eaton might not actually be a leadoff man, which is a big surprise to me. His absolutely atrocious April is going to be an anchor on his #'s all year, but he's been OK in May and actually had a pretty fantastic June. Dont give up on him is what I'm saying, you can give up on everyone else without much argument from me, but Eaton is the one guy (aside Abreu) who I like on this team going forward.

So what should Eaton be? He's fast, but not a base stealer. He has more power now, but he's clearly not a power hitter. I'm inclined to think Eaton is really a guy you want batting 6th. Someone held deeper in the lineup to rive in RISP but also get on base a little himself. The old "dont be a rally killer" role, that may be his best place in the lineup.

Avi, you hold onto Avi because he's shown you flashes and he's still a young player. I think the idea of him being a middle-order run producter is mostly dead, but his ability to be a solid bat in a good lineup is very alive. The defense is improving, thank god. If next year goes poorly then its time to start looking for RF replacements, but there are much more pressing issues in the lineup than a young player trying to improve.

The first step here has to be identifying what isn't in imminent need of replacing. Some of it may seem like (and probably is) just players you can tolerate because their peers are such colossal trainwrecks, but the Sox have to start somewhere. Abreu, Eaton and Garcia are their starting points. You can start to see now how things have gone wrong.

NEXT, ITS FIXIN' TIME
Author:  bigfan [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
Fix what? Go for it....you get nothing for trading off parts except $$$ back...so go for it and trade the guys in the offseason!
Author:  good dolphin [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
BD wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
They've had an awful good run lately.

I try to re-up Shark. Not sure they would get much for him, by dumping him.

Would love to dump Duck Commander LaRoche. Beckham or Alexi....


Grote was with Mully this morning and actually thought the Sox could get one of the Cubs top prospects. He said they should be able to get Kyle Schwarber,or Addison Russell. :lol: :lol: :lol: This idiot claims to be a Sox fan, but doesn't remember the Sox only gave up seimen for Shark. No way in hell the Cubs give up a top prospect.


That doesn't seem likely. In fact, that seems to be completely unrealistic to get either Schwarber or Russell in any deal.

If the Cubs are down on Baez, maybe there's a chance there, but it's hard to see the Cubs giving up a ton for a impending free agent. I think they'd want to know he's going to be on the team for the future, which he won't commit to.


Gordon Whitenmeyer thought the Cubs could get Samardizija for Alcantara and Olt. Even the Cub loving guys at Hit and Run laughed at this.
Author:  America [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
You'd rather have the comp pick than Baez. You'd actually rather have the comp pick than just about any prospect outside the top 50. That's kind of the issue with moving Samardzija. Once you get to the point where you'd rather have that prospect than the pick (this draft is fucking loaded) you've simultaneously hit the level of talent where teams are much more hesitant to move that player. Could the Sox pry Trea Turner away from the Nationals? Maybe? (Strasburg's injury may make it easier).
Author:  good dolphin [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
America wrote:
You'd rather have the comp pick than Baez. You'd actually rather have the comp pick than just about any prospect outside the top 50. That's kind of the issue with moving Samardzija. Once you get to the point where you'd rather have that prospect than the pick (this draft is fucking loaded) you've simultaneously hit the level of talent where teams are much more hesitant to move that player. Could the Sox pry Trea Turner away from the Nationals? Maybe? (Strasburg's injury may make it easier).


but shouldn't that also raise the price on the offer side with the buyer knowing they will most likely replace the player they lose with a better player in 2016?
Author:  America [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
No comp pick for teams who acquire players mid season. The Sox are the only team who can get a comp pick for Shark.
Author:  Nas [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: All Star Break
The Sox will have a great rotation for the next decade unless there are several major injuries. Retooling is easier when you have the arms.
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