Rose is a bust!!!!

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It's a summer league game. They make preseason games look like NBA Finals games. Ask Marco Belinelli and Devean George how dominating summer league translates into the regular season. Im more concerned about the Bulls lack of defense then Rose. Rose will be good, you could see that. The Bulls defense was awful, half of Beasleys points were basically uncontested.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Garrett Wolfe is going to run for a big gain this pre season.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

From what I saw, the Bulls were running a glorified pickup game offense. Without structure, that's going to happen.

Exactly. Guys were running into each other. It was brutal. I hope not too much is made of this but the highlights were on ESPN news and of course the morning shows are talking about it. If there's anything more overblown than the summer league, it's one specific summer league game. Who cares. Means absolutely nothing.

Beasley will be a very good scorer very early in his NBA career. I still say Paxson should do just about whatever it takes to get him and Rose on the Bulls.

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How many 6'7 forwards have ever been the number 1 guy on a title winning team?

Larry Bird but that's all I can think of.

Now, with Wade, Beasley doesn't have to be the number 1 guy but on the Bulls he would have been expected to.

I saw the higlights of that game on the local news.

Guess what? Rose's quick first step translates to the NBA. I know he's playing against bums but he's gonna be a better player than Beasley.

Nas, so what if it takes him longer than Beasley? We weren't gonna win a title with Beasley in 3 years if we would have taken him.

My assumption is that Rose will be the #1 player, although probably not the #1 scorer. Bulls sycophants have been telling me for years that Luol Deng will be at least a #2 for years. Beasley will quickly be better than Deng, if he isn't already.

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The 22-31 year old Rose will be better, and more important to a title, than the 22-31 year old Beasley. Bottom line

Did you even read my post? I want both not one or the other. Stop using this message board as your verbal vomit bag and you might be able to make some sense eventually.

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Jesus Christ, Midget. I was typing that as your post came through. It wasn't a response to you.

There is no edit to this new board and I wanted to add something in response to Nas.

My God.

Like Bagels and I were saying earlier, these summer league games mean absolutely nothing. I'll watch them(like the one on again tonight at 6:00 against the Pacers) because Im an NBA nerd, but they really dont tell you a whole lot. It's clear Beasley will be a very good pro, and I have never said I think Rose will be better his rookie year. From what I saw yesterday it's clear Beasley is ready to play in the NBA right now, as advertised. Also from what I saw yesterday I still disagree with Nas that you'll regularly see those type of box scores from Rose during the regular season, i.e. more turnovers than assists. Rose showed alot of ability, and quite frankly the rest of the team looked worse than your average college team running a team offense and rotating on defense. 80% of the guys on the roster will not be in the NBA come November. Give him quality NBA talent around him, and I think he will be very good as far as rookies go.

I have to give credit to the NBA scouts that threw out the Carmelo comparison. Beasley is a bit stronger, but they have very similar styles on offense. I didnt see much out of Beasley defensively yesterday, but again that means nothing. I cant wait to see him during the regular season. If he shows a commitment and willingness on the defensive end, he can be a very good player. Those were the main concerns with him coming into the league from everything I've read, and it seems to still be the case. I'm not saying he's lazy or bad defensively, but we dont know yet.

TM, I very much doubt the Bulls are getting Beasley. I think its safe to forget about that pipedream and focus on the necessery roster adjustments that need to be made with our current team.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Bulls roster doesn't require adjustment; it needs to be blown up.

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That's wrong. You dont just blowup teams when you have that many lottery picks as a foundation. If they do the blowup you suggest, they could end up winning 30-35 games the next couple years instead of the 15-20 it'll take to get a top 3 pick. There's too much talent on the team to lose that many games. What you are advocating is just plain bad basketball philosophy and would get any GM fired. The pieces are in place. They need to try to bring in a certified all star by training camp without giving up Deng, and they will have some very good pieces in place to contend.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Who is the certified All-Star the Bulls will acquire without giving up Deng?

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I don't know. I was saying if they could bring one in, I think they could contend for the division next season. Either way I think they will be in the playoffs again next season if Del Negro proves to be even an average NBA coach. Conversely, what moves would you make if you were in their shoes? How would you "blow the team up"?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Well it's easy to say that the Bulls "should" acquire a perennial All-Star without giving up Deng, but far less easy to achieve. You call my desire to acquire Beasley so he can be paired as a 1-2 combo with Rose a pipe dream, but it seems like you're the one selling ocean front property in Nebraska.

I also dispute the idea that making the playoffs without having a definable core in place is a laudable goal for the Bulls. Two years ago they achieved this feat but remained galaxies away from a championship because they had no stars. With Rose on their roster, they are likely closer to to a title, but--assuming Deng remains their second best player--will remain at least one impact player short of being a legitimate contender.

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I would absolutely love to get Beasley from the Heat and I would be willing to give up just about anyone on our roster to do it. But my question would be, why in the world would Miami do it? Who on our roster would interest them enough to give up the #2 pick in the draft?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I have heard that Riley really likes Deng and Gordon. I assume discussions would begin there.

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I am not sure what Miami's contract situation is, but I also assume the Bulls will have to take any bad ones that Miami has. To me, this is OK because the drafting of Rose basically means the Bulls are on a five-year plan anyway.

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How are you getting that from my post? I said the Bulls should try to get an All Star, you said they should try to get Beasley. Whether you realize it or not, my suggestion is the much more plausible goal. Jefferson is an All Star and just got moved to the Bucks for basically a bag of peanuts. Look at the Pau trade last year. There's great players to be had, in the right situations. Next offseason Larry Hughes contract should be a valuable enough asset to acquire a great player from a team looking for alot of cap relief.

As for making the playoffs, it seems like you are overestimating how tough it is to get in. Remember that over half the teams in the league will make it in. A 37 win team got in in the East last season. You cant honestly tell me looking at the talent on this roster they dont have enough to win 45 games. The talent is clearly there. It's gonna take a good coach that knows how to maximize it. Effort counts as much as talent in the NBA.

But you ignored my question. You are advocating blowing this team up. What moves would you make that seem reasonable to get towards that goal?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I have already told you that my first choice would be to focus on acquiring Beasley so I can put a core into place. I have been on the record with this idea since before the draft.

I have no idea what you're talking about re: the playoffs. My point had nothing to do with the difficulty of achieving that objective. I was simply questioning the desirability of making the playoffs while lacking a bona fide core, something the Bulls did two years ago. I do not equate making the playoffs with having a true championship core. Apparently you do.

Regarding your points about Jefferson and Gasol, they are interesting ideas to kick around, but I think they're the kind of players who make you good while possibly preventing you from being great. Starting with a core of Beasley and Rose lays the foundation for greatness.

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If a deal was gonna be done, it would by the draft. I also very much doubt Gordon and Deng will sign contracts low enough to trade them to Miami, even taking back the terrible Blount and Banks contracts. Miami doesnt have much extra cap room.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

They arent gonna get Beasley. It just isnt gonna happen. I dont even know if there is a conceivable scenario under the cap that a trade could work for both teams. Under the slim chance there is, Pax has already shown he is not creative enough to make this happen. It would have gotten done on draft day if it were going to. Plain and simple, the Bulls are not getting Beasley. Considering that, I dont see another plausible "blow up" scenario.

Also dont put words in my mouth. I never said making the playoffs = championship quality team. However, given a choice between 35 win seasons and 45-50 win season, Ill take the latter every day. The fact of the matter is there is too much talent on this team to lose enough games make it in the top 3, and Im not gonna bank on a 1.5% chance again. So right now the best option seems to be to try to develop Luol, Thablo, Tyrus, Noah, etc. Try to move Kirk and/or Gordon. Hughes large contract will expire in 2010, which could possibly be the best FA class in recent memory. So keep the core of lottery players we have now. Hope Luol develops into an All Star quality player, which he has certainly shown potential to be if healthy. Then use that cap room in 2010 to try to sign one of the marquee names, and Rose will be going into his third year by then. With Rose, Noah, Luol, possibly Gordon, possibly Tyrus, and most likely some other role players as a core, adding another All Star could definitely make them title contenders. In my opinion, that is a much more plausible scenario then "blow the team up", since there doesnt seem to be the necessary options to do that.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

This is the most plausible way of doing things IMO as well, and I would venture to say it is pretty close to the plan that Pax and staff has in place.

I am fine with not being a contender for the next couple of years in order to develop this young core and look ahead to 2010.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Are we debating what Paxson will do, or what Paxson should do? Your plan is obviously the one Paxson is following, but I'd hardly call it a good one. I'd much rather have Rose and Beasley than Rose and Deng as I try to build for the future, plain and simple.

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Geez man, I guess you really like Beasley, huh? If the Bulls had him (and Rose) they'd be "laying the foundation for greatness"? You already admitted they needed a #2 scorer but you're against Jefferson or Gasol? I agree Beasley will be a good player, probably even great but you seem to be crowning him already and making him a hall of famer after one summer league game. Obviously you'd have to give up a hell of a lot to get Beasley where I'm sure you could get someone as productive for a lot less

Well shit TM I'd rather have Rose and Kobe but I like to be realistic about what I hope my team will do.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I choose not to allow my thinking to be limited by the shortcomings of my GM.

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Yes, I like Beasley, so what's your point? I said the Bulls need a #2 player, not a #2 scorer. Rose will likely never be a #1 scorer. Beasley is an ideal fit for that role, in my opinion.

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