Not really. They had one of the five best players of all time in his prime and barely managed a 4 seed in a historically bad conference. It actually helps prove my point. You also have ZERO response to the facts I quoted.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What does Lebron James being an all time great have to do with his teams ability to play defense?

You also made excuses for G.S "weren't playing hard". Being the 9th rated defense yet being the odds on favorite to win sort of proves the point regarding the importance of defense.

Houston was 5th in efficiency this year. Thats good but that isn't indicative of a great defense.

_________________

Minnesota Cleveland were able to make the playoffs with 2 of the worst defenses in the league.

N.O. made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs with a mediocre defense.

They also blew the doors off a team that had the 6th ranked defense in the league.

_________________

Now you’re simply restating all the facts I presented to you without offering any sort of rebuttal.

Rough night my friend. Apology accepted.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You are saying that defense matters yet the 29th ranked defense in the league makes it to the finals. You say that isn't relevant which really makes no sense.

The best team in the NBA is only avg defensively and you say that isn't important because Miami was able to make the playoffs.


You can't refute my point that it is better to be good offensively which the Bulls happen to be.

_________________

The best team in the nba is only average defensively. Why would you say that? I literally just proved that wrong and provided the proof.

Golden State was 9th this year in the regular season and was even better in the playoffs against top competition. That is not average at all. Last year, with the exact same roster, they were the best defensive team in the NBA.

Please stop arguing the “defense doesn’t matter” argument. I’ve thoroughly disproved it and it’s an argument that idiots who don’t follow the NBA like to spout off. I expect better of you LTG.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I’ll also say that it doesn’t matter whether it’s better to be good offensively or defensively. That’s irrelevant.

If you want to compete in the NBA you have to be good at both. That is not an opinion. It is backed by decades of data. Stop arguing facts please, thanks.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

9th best is avg. They aren't above avg. My original point is that you don't have to be great defensively in today's NBA to win.

I backed it up. G.S. isn't the best defensive team in the NBA yet they are the odds on favorite to win because they have a very good to great offense.

Parker's point was correct.

_________________

Either you aren’t familiar with the NBA or you aren’t familiar with math.

Have a good night my friend.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Cleveland wasn't good at both. Thats a fact. Neither was Minnesota or N.O. Those are facts. Boston wasn't a good offensive team. They weren't good at both either.

Those are facts.

_________________

Those are facts, agreed.

Another fact, Cleveland, Minnesota, and NO couldn’t compete with GS. Houston could.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Neither could Utah which had the No.1 defense in the league.

_________________

Correct. They were 16th and Boston(you mentioned them too) was 18th in Offensive Efficiency. This proves my point that you need to be good at both to win a title. There are exceptions but generally speaking you simply cannot be a bad defensive team and win a title. Look back at all the data you want and tell me the worst defensive teams to win titles.

Cleveland was awful defensively and rode a top 5 guy of all time in his prime to a Finals berth in a historically weak conference against a team missing two of it's three best players, and in your opinion, it's two best players. Stop arguing the Cavs were a legit contender last year. You spent all of last year arguing against it.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Here is the point that you keep missing and you are sounding like a neophyte which you aren't. Cleveland should never have made it to the finals with as shitty a defensive team as they were.

Minnesota and Denver in a very tough conference mind you, should never have battled for a playoff spot with the collective defenses that they have.

If you aren't very good at offense you aren't contending for anything either. Not simply good. Very good. That is the difference.

_________________

Sounds like you agree with me. You need to be good at both, or at least can’t be very bad at one end of the floor, if you want to contend. Not sure what you were arguing then.

Defense matters. Decades of data prove this. Out of the three titles GS has won, they have been the best defensive team in the NBA during two of them, so it’s not like this is some old school opinion.

I get that we disagree a lot but you should really pick your battles. “Defense doesn’t matter in the NBA” is a dumbass, uninformed, non-fan opinion. I know you don’t believe it. Let’s agree on this and move on, cool? I already provided all the necessary evidence to do so.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Its silly and disingenuous to say that defense matters even as you pooh pooh the fact that the second worst defensive team in the league made it to the finals. Even if i concede the fact that defense matters i'm not going to concede that you have to be great ar it in order to win. Dallas won with a team that wasn't great defensively. Wasn't probably even good.

You have to be at minimum very good offensively or you have no chance.

I will add this. During the previous season 3-4 of the top 10 teams defensively missed the playoffs.

_________________

None of this makes sense. We both agree that Boston would have beaten Cleveland if they were healthy. It also ignores that Cleveland had one of the five best players ever in his prime and that barely carried them to a Finals berth against a injury depleted and historically weak conference. He then got fucking demolished by a GS team that did worse against SA, NO, and Houston than it did against Cleveland. Please stop saying Cleveland was a contender last year. We both know that is objectively false and you yourself argued against them being a contender all year. And I very much have to laugh at the bolded part. Just look at how fucking ridiculous that sounds.


They were 9th that year defensively and definitely a good defensive team. They particularly were very good defensively in the WCF and Finals that year.

This is objectively false and tells me that you're either lying or simply don't have the knowledge to have this conversation and are too lazy to look up facts so you simply lie. Here is the proof:



All 10 of those teams made the playoffs last season. I've provided you with an abundance of evidence that defense matters and have proven you wrong on multiple points in this thread alone. You have provided me with absolutely zero evidence to the contrary. Please try better next time. Good night.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Last year they had 10 teams make the playoffs the year before (which you conveniently ignored) there were 6-7 with the Bulls needing a win on the final day just to get in.

This is why debates are difficult. You just stated that sonething is objectively false which is obviously true. I will provide 3-4 teams that missed the playoffs the previous season for you.



Also you lied when you stated that G.S had the best defense in 2 of the 3 years they won the title. They didn't. That is only true for 1 season.


Lastly for now anyway is this. Saying a 9th ranked defense is good is stupid. You've done it twice now. Particularly in a league where most teams don't really play much defense.

I'm fairly certain that you have bashed Hoiberg for his inability to coach defense at some point since he has been coach. In 16-17 his team had the 6th rated defense in the league..


When i say that defense doesn't matter i'm saying it relative to the importance of offense.

You can be a great defensive team or good defensive team and you aren't going to do jack if you have a mediocre offense. See Memphis.

When i say defense doesn't matter that is what i'm referencing. Cleveland won a title while being a mediocre to bad defensive team so it can be done.

Utah had the best defense and it is debatable as to whether they should have gotten out of the first round.


Also you posted 17-18 stats when i clearly said during the previous season and claimed that what i said was "objectively false". What posted was "patently false" since i clearly meant 16-17.

_________________

9th ranked defense is good. put LeBron on any team in the east and they go to the finals.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Having the 9th ranked defense in the NBA is avg at best. As i stated before the Bulls were the 6th ranked defense the previous year and all i heard was how terrible of a defensive team they were. Not one person here praised them for being a "good" defensive team. Now 9th best is good. Ok

_________________

wouldnt like 15th be average?

It's a least slightly concerning that he is known for playing terrible defense, and he can not even pretend that he cares about playing defense.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

15th is mediocre

_________________

James Harden Westbrook Lebron don't bother to play defense either. Steph Curry is terrible too. So is Damien Lillard.

Jabari Parker is extremely talented offensively. He is going to have to put some effort into it defense but to think that he is going to have to be a stopper all of a sudden is foolish. Ain't happening. He could have worded it better but what he was trying to say is that the good ones are going get "theirs" most of the time.You will know that he is terrible when bad offensive players start lighting him up consistently. That is when i'm going to go uh oh.

_________________

The population has a misunderstanding of the word mediocre. It has come to be thought of as meaning bad. It means average

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Yeah mediocre is neither good nor bad. To me good defensive teams crack the top 5. If you aren't in the top 5 then you can't be considered good.

_________________

To me it does not matter that defense is this percentage of important or that percentage. I hope Jabari is great for the Bulls and many players in the past that were great had defensive flaws.

What bugged me is the insistence that he just didn't need to work on it. At least pay lip service. Kinda like when Iverson put people off with that practice montage.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

Yeah but what about the guys that fake it? Anyone can say they are going to "work their butt off". I want to see how he looks once the ball is tossed up.

Winning "press conferences" and interview sessions means nothing.

_________________

The problem is that it appears to have been the case with the Bucks. We'll see I guess. Would be nice to see that he cared to improve is all.

https://sconniesportstalk.com/2018/04/1 ... rker-less/

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

True, the faker can be spotted and not liked either.

_________________
Elections have consequences.