Reasons: 6 NBA titles and the Bulls do not win 6 without Pippen. Perhaps the best one on one defender the NBA has ever seen. He changed games (and playoff series) with his style of play. He could score when needed, he was a good rebounder, he passed the ball as well as anyone on the team. There was nothing on the basketball court Pippen could not do.

I love Rose and I think he is going to be a great, great player for a long time. But to say that he is right now the 2nd best Bulls player ever is just not true. He very well may end up being that good. But he just isn't right now.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Scottie Pippen is hands-down the second greatest Bull ever. He was so good they should probably erect a statue in his honor.

Oh wait, they are.

Derrick Rose is good, yes. I would even go so far as calling him a "great" player. However he is not even in the conversation of best of all time... like Pippen was, as evidenced by his place in the Top 50.

+1. Probably a conversation that might need to be had a decade from now. It is a premature and ridiculous argument at this point

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Team Cutler.

you're an idiot. he could handle it; had it not been for Hue Hollins phantom foul, they would have won the title.

Derrick Rose = 2 first round exits
Scottie Pippen = 6 titles. A Jordan-less playoff run that was halted by a controversial call, and he also led other teams he played for on deep playoff runs.
Mr Belvidere = Boob

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Glad to see guys are stepping up to defend Scottie's honor in my absence. Thanks guys.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

My point is Rose is the 2nd best Bull based on what he is showing. Pippen played four years at Cent Ark. Rose played one at Memphis. Pippen was an okay player his first couple of years where as Rose would have been a Senior this year. Pippen was a great player that played all over the place like a madman his first few years butwith Grant and Jordan (who is the best defender in NBA history) along side. Rose is miles ahead of Pippen at this point in their careers with not much around him. Rose will always have the ball. He will always look for the last shot or find someone else. Pippen never took the last shot and never made it when he did.

I know its apples and oranges when comparing a swingman Forward and a scoring point guard. My opinon is based on where they are at the same stage of their career. Rose's best is so much closer right now than Pippens at the same point in their careers. Rose is still getting better and he's a floor leader right now.

And if titles are the measurement then Malone, Barkley, Stockton, and Ewing must suck. All would be considered a better more valuable player than Pippen. The difference is adding Pippen to any of their teams and you have a Champion year after year. (Barkley was done when Pippen joined him) Pippen made a good team better. He's my favorite Bull of all time. But he could not be the man. Rose is the man.

This is such a ridiculous idea it is not even funny. In their 3rd year, neither Pippen nor Rose is/was the 2nd best Bull ever.

Pippen remains the 2nd greatest Bull of all time and it is not even close right now.

And no one said the titles were the determining factor, but they are a part of the story. The Bulls do not win 6 titles in the 90s without Pippen.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

yeah but they do win at titles with a forward that can post and score like a Adrian Dantley or Mark Aguirre. Probably sooner than they did. Sure they would defend less but would score more. Jordan worked so fucking hard at the end of games because too many times no wanted the shot. Dominique? Benard King? Larry Johnson?

You underestimate Jordan. I love Pippen but even I know a lot of players would have won with him. It happened to be Pippen. And he did his job.

Are you saying that Rose at this level and improving for the next few years, will not be a better player than Pippen when its all over? Pippen was a great hard working player. No special talents just an athelete with lots of very good skills that played along side a special player. Rose is special now. He's only gonna get better.

Sure maybe the would have won titles with another forward in place of Pippen. But I don't think they would have won 6 of them in same fashion. Either way, it really has nothing to do with whether Pippen or Rose is the 2nd best Bull of all time.



How do I underestimate Jordan when I consider him to be the greatest of all time?



I am saying we do not know right now. Rose is great and I think he will continue to improve and he has the potential to be the 2nd greatest Bull of all time, but the verdict is still out. Potential is not always reached.



What??? No special talents? That is crazy. He was one of (if not THE) best one on one defender the NBA has ever seen. You do not reach that level without special talent.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Name a Bull that was better than Rose (other than Pippen)

Theus? LOve? Gilmore? Sloan?

If Rose died tomorrow, he's go down as the 2nd or 3rd best Bull ever. You dont agree? Put the stat book down and use your eyes and your brain.

Again, I just don't think Rose is there yet. Yes, Rose is a great player and he very well may end up the 2nd greatest Bull of all time.

Bob Love, Norm Van Lier, Jerry Sloan, Chet Walker are all up there.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I stand corrected. He was a special defender. Underated rebounder. Solid passer. Terrible shooter but pct was okay because of the fastbreaks he created on defense that turned into dunks and layups. average back to basket offensively. Great finisher and with the ball on the break. Scottie was special in that he did a lot of things very good.

I think we pretty much agree but you dont agree with the way I said it.

I feel it is safe to say that right now- Rose is more special, more of a star, the lead man on his team than Pippen ever was. If the Bulls add a piece or two around him, the Celtics are aging out of contention in a year or two, the Heat's egos will break them up, and the Magic and Hawks being whats left to contend with, the Bulls are a year or two away from being a top seed in the east. I expect this. I expect this guard to do this.

RFDC, you deserve a shoutout here

i know i mock you often for posting +1's and smilies, but that was some solid analysis there. Good points. Very well done

+1

Trust me. Spmack is keeping stats.


(you're not doing well)

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

being 30 years old, from what i can remember pippen's jumper was never as consistent as rose's seems to be right now. it's not quite that horace grant set-shot money from back in the day, but when rose comes wheelin up the court and pulls up with a 17 footer you're just like "bam" and now it goes in. rose has clearly put in all kinds of crazy work on his jumper to go up at least ~3 notches from his rookie season, which is impressive in and of itself.

i think i can see both of your points. RFDC is saying "dude, pippen was the #2 dude for six championships. he singlehandedly locked down an HIV'd magic johnson near the end of his non-comeback playing career and the mere fact you could take one of a team's top scoring options and fuck their little world up with pippen is invaluable"

on the pippen front, belvidere reminds us that he wasn't much of a leader during the jordan suspension, erm, retirement (1.9 seconds baby!) and that whenever jordan wasn't around to anchor a team with that "fuck you i'm scoring" presence, pippen didn't do shit (see houston/portland/etc) granted he was well into his 30s by then.

on the rose tip, RFDC says too soon while belvidere says HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU WATCHING WHAT THIS GUY IS DOING?!@@w

i'm on belvidere's side of the argument, but i understand and technically concede correctness to RFDC's side at this juncture in time. derrick rose has showed me more franchise player type cred than pippen ever did, and his ability to say "fuck you i'm scoring" approaches the jordan-tier. barring a carmelo/kobe/durant/lebron/whoever-comes-out-in-the-next-5-years type player showing up and making it an "and rose" situation, this will be derrick's team and derrick's steez and in that regard unless the turf toe causes his foot to get amputated clearly on his current trajectory rose should pretty easily be the second greatest bull of all-time.

calling him the second greatest bull ever right now is just future forecasting. barring injury or nuclear armageddon it WILL be the case, even though it technically isn't. hear hear!

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Despite athletic feats suggesting otherwise, Rose may indeed be human.


Bulls' Rose a gametime decision with neck spasms
November 26, 2010 12:15 PM
K.C. Johnson

DENVER --- Derrick Rose experienced neck spasms and is a gametime decision for Friday's matchup against the Nuggets.

Rose wore a heating pad as he sat in the visitors' locker room before the Bulls' morning shootaround and couldn't turn his neck as he tried to address reporters.

"It's real sore," Rose said. "It started a little before the (Phoenix) game. It's been stiff ever since. If it's up to me, I'll play. But right now, I have to turn my whole body to look a certain way."

Rose, who has missed only four games in his first two seasons, said he planned to get a massage Friday afternoon. He tried soaking the neck Thursday night but that didn't help.

"I've been getting treatment but it hasn't gotten loose yet," Rose said. "I went to the team party (on Thursday) for a little bit, but I left because my neck got more irritated."

Coach Tom Thibodeau said C.J. Watson would start if Rose can't play.

As for Taj Gibson, who sat out the Suns' game with a sore right foot, the Bulls sounded optimistic he could play.

"I feel good," Gibson said. "I should play. The day off (Thursday) helped a lot. I got a lot of treatment on it. It's just how much pain I can tolerate. It's real painful, but I've been pushing through it."

I agree with this post. Firmly!

In case anyone did not see it, here is his 3 pointer that tied the game last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V-zqQ8Zio8

I love that it appears Rose is developing that confident swagger of a superstar.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Shit everyone in the NBA has that "confident swagger"

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

i was at the game last night. i lived that. watching the youtube link even knowing what happened, i still felt a desire to put my fist in the air when that shot swished ever so beautifully. easily the best NBA live moment of my life (jordan kissing center court of the chicago stadium now is #2)

that's whats up.

oh... and why the fuck didn't houston foul him before he crossed half court again?! adelman said as much after the game =D

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I was there on Saturday also. That D-Rose shot was definitely one of the biggest pops I've witnessed at an NBA game. I would probably only rate it second to the Ben Gordon nut grab 3-pointer to force Double OT against the Celtics a few years back. Everyone thought the game was finished with about a minute to go in regulation. People were leaving for the exits. Brad Miller missed that free throw on purpose. Once a Bull, always a Bull.

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Bump for making LBJ, Wade, and the other guy his bitch

Amen, sister.

He had Wade spooked enough to leave Deng open on that drive. Wade must have zero confidence in LBJ's defense...

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