I get that Vegan, but what's the upside of throwing your best player under the bus? The ball was moving better last night and the offense looked better.

Its difficult to incorporate a guy when he doesn't want to be incorporated. Butler asked the coach to run more isolation plays for him. He obviously was using his newly established cache as the team's best player to dictate how he wanted things to go.

What Butler didn't realize is that there is a distinction between franchise player and merely being the best player. There wasn't any buy in from him and the offense has suffered because of it.

It doesn't mean that he is the biggest problem, but it may be fair to ask if he is a problem.

_________________

I amended my post to say that if it comes down to it, I'm not trading away Butler to keep Hoiberg and his "system.". Sorry Fred but you were hired to handle problems like this. So handle it.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Don't know if i'd be in favor of trading Butler just yet either. They shouldn't completely rule it out though. They shouldn't completely hitch their wagon to him if he is going to try and undermine their coach. It's not just to the press, it's on the court.

_________________

Please provide the quote where Butler asked for more isolation.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

. He hasn't gone to the media but the inference is definitely valid.

This is the part of the show where semantics get debated. Have at it if you must.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... dEZzT0x9QQ

_________________

So you've completely fabricated the entire basis for your views?

That's cool, I guess.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

The miseducation of IMU continues. I provided a source for my statement. You requested a quote. That's your mistake. I never said that he was "quoted" . Don't know how much of a fabrication it is. All you have to do is watch the games and it's obvious that Butler is playing isolation basketball.

I can bet my last dime that you have no problem with unnamed sources when they're used to bash GarPax. The stuff with GarPax and Thibs was pretty much off the record or Bernstein leaked and I am sure you had no problem running with it.

It's only a fabrication if it's proven to be untrue.

It also can't be a fabrication if I provided a source. Conducting research or research etiquette is not a strong suit of yours I see.

_________________

I didnt watch much of this game but i caught that monster dunk over TAJ and then i had a laugh as stacey was ripping on cousins for over exaggerating his shoulder pain after being fouled

I'm a fan of the Bulls, but I'm a bigger fan of being right.

My Rondo love goes back to '07-'08 when I said he was a future All Star and would be great and was mocked by Nas and Rick at the time.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You provided a link to a paywall article. And you've stated Jimmy Butler has asked for more isolation plays while admitting that you have no knowledge that this is actually true.

I shit on unnamed sources. I'm analyzing the basketball that happens on the court. The sport is played for 48 minutes at a time on hardwood, not in closed door locker room meetings.

Jimmy Butler is the team's star, and by far the best player on the team. Period.

Tom Thibodeau got the most out of his roster year in and year out. Especially with the guards. The names would change each year and yet the players all had their career years with the Bulls. The teams were championship contenders.

Source: me.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Source? you? You are the message board's version of John Dewan. As far as Championshop contenders, it only occurred once under Thibs, his first yr. Second yr regular season record good bounced first round after Rose injury. Fact. Where is the every yr a contender crap come in?

Also shouldn't the Bulls have been able to beat an 8th seed that second yr, if Thibs is so good?

The article came from K.C. Johnson.

If you watch the games you'd know the guy is isolation intensive. Gasol spoke of the selfishness of certain players also. If you don't think the comments made by King and Funk werent meant for Butler, then you simply haven't been paying attention.

As far as more isolation plays I provided an article that quotes sources as saying he asked for more isolation plays. The guy writing the article happens to be a Bull beat writer

_________________

You haven't been a Bulls fan for very long, have you? KC Johnson is a joke. He is the biggest front office apologist in the history of Chicago sports.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I have been a Bulls since the late 70's. I have forgotten more Bulls players than you can name. He probably is a shill, but that doesn't mean his information is incorrect.

Joe Cowley is a noted Reinsdorf hater. Doesn't he carry the water for players and Thibs. You don't think the leaks regarding the rift were not placed because of his biases also? It works both ways. He is the go to guy for coaches and Butler.

_________________

The point regarding KC is that if he is a shill, and he is, it doesn't matter whether his information is correct or incorrect. It's inherently unreliable.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It's only unreliable if it's false. If it's true that Butler asked for more isolation plays, then it really doesn't matter if Johnson is a shill or not. Has Butler ever denied the fact that he wanted to run more isolation stuff?
Imu was praising the Bull offense for running more Thibodeau stuff when it appeared to work. Wasn't it praise for Butler and Gasol as I remember. Well The Thib offense from last year was largely isolationist.

_________________

What? KC Johnson is unreliable, therefore no one can know if it is true or false, therefore everything he says is discounted immediately.

And your entire argument is predicated on it being true.

You've based your entire 100 ton argument on a single sheet of aluminum foil and you're trying to make it hold.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Simply because someone chooses not to go on the record doesn't mean that something is false. Butler is never going to say that he asked Hoiberg to run more isolation stuff. It's not in his best interest to do so. When you hear King and Funk state multiple times that this is the offense that Hoiberg envisioned, it's obvious to whom they are referring. The comments are made during the only game in which Butler isn't playing.

_________________

Appreciate the chuckle, but that's not what unreliable means, in this or any other context.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Johnson's information can only be considered unreliable if it has been proven to be historically false. I have never read anything from him that has later been found to be false.

He has been known to withhold information but that is something completely different from being unreliable. Merely having access to people within the organization doesn't make his info. Unreliable. He obviously has sources. You need sources to get inside info. That's what makes it inside info.

I don't know why his sources are unreliable. If they have been known to tell the truth then they are reliable.

_________________