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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:39 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I can't analyze their front office strategies, but I will say that they all seem established enough where they wouldn't need to take a 'first job' where they are neutered and have to go along with what ownership or others say. Each is known and seems well respected...and this would be a side move for a couple of them. So they likely would only come if they do truly get full control...which has to be a good thing.


"Webster, like Ujiri and much of the Raptors leadership, is under contract through 2021. However, in most cases of a promotion, such as jumping from general manager to head of basketball operations, common practice in the NBA is that contracts can be broken."

I like that. Somebody potentially leaving a solid organization is not gonna take a job to be overruled by Pax.

I know nothing about the Denver guy but I don't want him. Too old.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:42 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:




Hoops guys, what do you think? I'm not really familiar with these names.


Not familiar with either of the names but Denver and Toronto have two of the best front offices in the league. I'd feel a lot better if they were bringing Usuri in from Toronto.

In terms of picking and identifying talent there aren't 2 better franchises. Just don't know how much influence either of these 2 have with that. Even if they have a voice it doesn't mean that they are the eyes so to speak.

I doubt seriously if they are worst than Gar at this point. Pax either.

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Last edited by long time guy on Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:42 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:




Hoops guys, what do you think? I'm not really familiar with these names.

I can't analyze their front office strategies, but I will say that they all seem established enough where they wouldn't need to take a 'first job' where they are neutered and have to go along with what ownership or others say. Each is known and seems well respected...and this would be a side move for a couple of them. So they likely would only come if they do truly get full control...which has to be a good thing.

yeah I think any of them would be an upgrade over what we have. But I have doubt that any of them will seriously come to do the job. So prepare for it to be a person not on this list as well and of course it will be spun as "this was our guy from the beginning."

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:43 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:




Hoops guys, what do you think? I'm not really familiar with these names.


Not familiar with either of the names but Denver and Toronto have two of the best front offices in the league. I'd feel a lot better if they were bringing Usuri in from Toronto.

In terms of picking and identifying talent there aren't 2 better franchises. Just don't know how much influence either of these 2 have with that. Even if they have a voice it doesn't mean that they are the eyes so to speak.

I doubt seriously if they are worst than Gar at this point. Pax either.

Miami is very good at identifying talent as well.

Seems they want solid team builder types.

Did I miss the post, or did Presti tell them to fuck off?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:55 pm 
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No decent gm is gonna wanna work here. First of all, they gonna report to Pax? The same dude who let Gar run this team into the ground and then still hasn't fired him? Then will gar be around? Even if gar is kept on as the human billboard dude waving signs at passerbys no decent GM is gonna be fine with that. You toss the old regime into the lake and you start new with fresh faces. That's how serious businesses do their thing. Not this piecemeal shit. Fuck Reinsdorf.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:16 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:33 am 
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"full authority on basketball decisions, assuming John Paxson and Gar Forman agree"


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:39 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
"full authority on basketball decisions, assuming John Paxson and Gar Forman agree"

Common sense-wise, Forman and Doug Collins go bye-bye and Paxson takes the Kenny Williams role as "just a dude you can bounce shit off of" Vice President.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:26 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
"full authority on basketball decisions, assuming John Paxson and Gar Forman agree"

Common sense-wise, Forman and Doug Collins go bye-bye and Paxson takes the Kenny Williams role as "just a dude you can bounce shit off of" Vice President.


From what I have read its Doug that has been pressing for Gar to be ousted more that anyone. He's wanted Gar gone for about the last 2 seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:54 pm 
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I have heard Brand being wooed by the Knicks and Cuban touted Finley for Da Bulls......either one would be worth a flyer

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:57 pm 
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I would be good with Finley

Quote:
Is Michael Finley a Bulls GM Candidate? 'He'd Be Amazing,' Mavs Cuban Says

Mike Fisher
3 hours ago

DALLAS - The Chicago Bulls are making changes at the top, having reportedly launched a search to replace long-time executive vice president John Paxton and general manager Gar Forman.
And the Dallas Mavericks may have a top-notch candidate.
"Michael Finley would be amazing in that role,'' Mavs owner Mark Cuban tells DallasBasketball.com. "Fin has had a huge impact on the Mavs. ... Amazing.''
According to NBC Sports Chicago's K.C. Johnson, owner Michael Reinsdorf's original plan was to make changes at the conclusion of the regular season. The COVID-19 crisis has halted NBA play and seemingly altered the Bulls' timetable, with reported intentions to seek permission to interview Nuggets general manager Arturas Karnisovas, Raptors general manager Bobby Webster, Pacers general manager Chad Buchanan and Heat assistant general manager Adam Simon, per NBC Sports.
The name of Finley, 47 and a Chicago native, isn't on the above list. Cuban and others who have worked closely with Finley, the former Mavs star who since 2012 has served a quiet apprenticeship in the Dallas front office for years and now holds the title of Vice President of Basketball Operations for the Dallas Mavericks., believe it should be.
Finley, the 21st overall pick in the 1995 NBA Draft, played 15 seasons in the NBA. He has career averages of 15.7 points, 4.4 rebounds and 2.9 assists. The two-time All-Star is mostly remembered for his time with the Mavs, where he played with Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash as part of the foundation of the franchise's turnaround under Cuban and the Nelsons.
Finley has performed alongside Cuban, GM Donnie Nelson, coach Rick Carlisle and assistant GM Keith Grant in Dallas, learning all aspects of front-office work.
The next Bulls hire will reportedly have autonomy when it comes to basketball operations, including the authority to determine the fate of coach Jim Boylen, whose 2019-20 Bulls are 22-43. Paxson and Forman could possibly stay in Chicago in "advisory roles'' under the new leadership - leadership of the sort that supporters of Michael Finley believe he offers.
"Fin would be so good there,'' Cuban tells us, "that I don't know if I would even give permission for them to talk to him.''

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:00 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I would be good with Finley

Quote:
Is Michael Finley a Bulls GM Candidate? 'He'd Be Amazing,' Mavs Cuban Says

Mike Fisher
3 hours ago

DALLAS - The Chicago Bulls are making changes at the top, having reportedly launched a search to replace long-time executive vice president John Paxton and general manager Gar Forman.
And the Dallas Mavericks may have a top-notch candidate.
"Michael Finley would be amazing in that role,'' Mavs owner Mark Cuban tells DallasBasketball.com. "Fin has had a huge impact on the Mavs. ... Amazing.''
According to NBC Sports Chicago's K.C. Johnson, owner Michael Reinsdorf's original plan was to make changes at the conclusion of the regular season. The COVID-19 crisis has halted NBA play and seemingly altered the Bulls' timetable, with reported intentions to seek permission to interview Nuggets general manager Arturas Karnisovas, Raptors general manager Bobby Webster, Pacers general manager Chad Buchanan and Heat assistant general manager Adam Simon, per NBC Sports.
The name of Finley, 47 and a Chicago native, isn't on the above list. Cuban and others who have worked closely with Finley, the former Mavs star who since 2012 has served a quiet apprenticeship in the Dallas front office for years and now holds the title of Vice President of Basketball Operations for the Dallas Mavericks., believe it should be.
Finley, the 21st overall pick in the 1995 NBA Draft, played 15 seasons in the NBA. He has career averages of 15.7 points, 4.4 rebounds and 2.9 assists. The two-time All-Star is mostly remembered for his time with the Mavs, where he played with Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash as part of the foundation of the franchise's turnaround under Cuban and the Nelsons.
Finley has performed alongside Cuban, GM Donnie Nelson, coach Rick Carlisle and assistant GM Keith Grant in Dallas, learning all aspects of front-office work.
The next Bulls hire will reportedly have autonomy when it comes to basketball operations, including the authority to determine the fate of coach Jim Boylen, whose 2019-20 Bulls are 22-43. Paxson and Forman could possibly stay in Chicago in "advisory roles'' under the new leadership - leadership of the sort that supporters of Michael Finley believe he offers.
"Fin would be so good there,'' Cuban tells us, "that I don't know if I would even give permission for them to talk to him.''


Definitely would be good PR first and foremost. Chicago guy who is experienced in a NBA front office and can relate better to today's players than Paxson can.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:11 pm 
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Yeah definitely. He seems to be an intelligent guy that has a lot of respect around the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:07 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

beautiful! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:13 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Yeah definitely. He seems to be an intelligent guy that has a lot of respect around the league.


We don't know anything about him. All Mark Cuban said was "he's awesome." Seems like that's enough to get the Bulls interested. Cuban is gonna shill for his guy anyway.

Here's why this isn't encouraging:

1) Where the fuck is the news release informing the public of Gar Foreman's termination? This is really really getting weird. He cannot stick around. This is like Obama staying in the admin as Trump takes over. That can't happen. Get the old regime out so the new one can do its thing.

2) That they're picking all these young guys indicates they want some pliable, someone whose hungry enough for the job to accept a bad situation. Like keeping Forman and Paxson around. This is like the Bears and hiring Pace with all sorts of conditions. This indicates they seek to make cosmetic changes and not the full scale reconstructive surgery the FO needs. It's all bullshit.

3) The Bulls could have drafted Finley. I think they took Caffey instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:38 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Yeah definitely. He seems to be an intelligent guy that has a lot of respect around the league.


We don't know anything about him. All Mark Cuban said was "he's awesome." Seems like that's enough to get the Bulls interested. Cuban is gonna shill for his guy anyway.

Here's why this isn't encouraging:

1) Where the fuck is the news release informing the public of Gar Foreman's termination? This is really really getting weird. He cannot stick around. This is like Obama staying in the admin as Trump takes over. That can't happen. Get the old regime out so the new one can do its thing.

2) That they're picking all these young guys indicates they want some pliable, someone whose hungry enough for the job to accept a bad situation. Like keeping Forman and Paxson around. This is like the Bears and hiring Pace with all sorts of conditions. This indicates they seek to make cosmetic changes and not the full scale reconstructive surgery the FO needs. It's all bullshit.

3) The Bulls could have drafted Finley. I think they took Caffey instead.


Feel free to make the case for whoever you want. I am not saying I want this dude, but I think we could do a lot worse.

1.) If you are waiting for this it is never going to happen so be prepared to be irritated.

2.) I agree with a lot of this, but I think it is just reality. They are not going to get anyone established to come in here.

3.) Really has nothing to do with this conversation at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:59 pm 
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I threw in Finley over Caffey as an aside. It would have been awesome to have Finley on the bench for the playoff runs although obviously it didn't matter. Then we could have built around him post-dynasty. He wasn't good enough to change history but he was a nice asset for a good 5-6 year period. Also slam dunk contest kind of dude.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:11 pm 
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It's unclear where Finley is in the hierarchy of decision making in Dallas. A Cuban recommendation doesn't exactly put a tingle down my leg since he's recommended both Finley AND his asst GM. He loves his guys. So what.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:12 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I threw in Finley over Caffey as an aside. It would have been awesome to have Finley on the bench for the playoff runs although obviously it didn't matter. Then we could have built around him post-dynasty. He wasn't good enough to change history but he was a nice asset for a good 5-6 year period. Also slam dunk contest kind of dude.

very true

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:19 pm 
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The biggest yes-man to Pax and ownership gets this job. Nothing else matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:10 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The biggest yes-man to Pax and ownership gets this job. Nothing else matters.


basically.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:03 pm 
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Staying with the Pacers over the Bulls. How the mighty have fallen.



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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:05 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Staying with the Pacers over the Bulls. How the mighty have fallen.



Strongly believe this is all tied to the weird decision to retain Paxson and Forman. Why do Chicagoans get stuck with weird as hell front offices who can't attract top GM talent because the executives can't step back?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:07 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
Staying with the Pacers over the Bulls. How the mighty have fallen.



Strongly believe this is all tied to the weird decision to retain Paxson and Forman. Why do Chicagoans get stuck with weird as hell front offices who can't attract top GM talent because the executives can't step back?


It only took the Sox 12 years with this shitty type of management structure to potentially become relevant again. Maybe sometime in the late 20s the Bulls will be back to.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:19 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Wasn't Michael Reinsdorf quoted in the papers as saying he didn't know why bulls fans were angry and they GarPax did a wonderful job? If they want Forman gone they could have done it a long time ago. Won't believe it till I see it.



Here's what I was looking for. it's a year old but still ridiculous now and at the time:

Quote:
If we look at Lauri Markkanen, if you did the 2017 draft over again, Lauri in theory could be the No. 1 pick in the draft. You might say Jayson Tatum or Donovan Mitchell. But Lauri could be the No. 1 pick. That’s how good that pick was at No. 7.


:lol:

Quote:
We’re always spending money in this organization — not just on our players, coaches and basketball operations staff. We spent over $30 million to build the Advocate Center. We added Doug Collins, a full-time physical therapist, a full-time nutritionist


:lol:

Quote:
Will John Paxson and Gar Forman be back next season?

Absolutely. We believe they’ve done a great job.


:lol:

Quote:
I know that in this market, with some of our fans and some in the media, they look at it differently. That perplexes me.


:lol:

Quote:
Lauri was almost player of the month for February.

:lol:

Quote:
How do you react to anyone who expresses very strong dislike for John and Gar and wants them fired?

It’s hard for me to see people that I admire and respect get criticized. They have families. They have given a lot to this organization.


:lol:

Quote:
As for Gar, he has been with our organization since 1998. I listen to sports radio sometimes — yes, I sometimes do — and I’ll hear people say, “I don’t trust Gar to make the right draft choice.” That is really confusing to me.


:lol:


Screw this guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Exactly. Fuck the Reinsdorfs.

Until Jerry dies and/or GarPax is gone I've been resigned to the fact that I'm temporarily without a favorite NBA team.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:10 pm 
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So wait, Gar Forman is already confirmed to be returning?


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:11 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:


Exactly. Fuck the Reinsdorfs.

Until Jerry dies and/or GarPax is gone I've been resigned to the fact that I'm temporarily without a favorite NBA team.

Yep. Garpax are just hanging around to be spies for Jerry.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:23 pm 
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Sounds like they have permission to interview Zanik from the Jazz and Karnisovas from the Nuggets

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:25 pm 
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If gar and pax are hanging around then we're getting the least attractive candidates possible. Even Jared from Subway has more self respect than to apply for this job.

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