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Does Anyone Dispute This?

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:28 am

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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Douchebag wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Terry's Peeps wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

He was an amazing owner but something happened after 2005 that made him pretty complacent which explains his undeserved loyalty to certain guys.

Amazing

7 titles is pretty awesome.

If he did anything other than suck enough to get in position to draft Jordan, I would give him more credit.

He gets some for putting the right pieces together, but amazing is a stretch, imo.

Didn't he buy the Bulls after Jordan was drafted?

He did. Turned $15 million into $2+ billion (never said he was dumb) and is still running the franchise like it’s the Charlotte Hornets. Cheap asshole.

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pittmike

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:29 am

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
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It is a pretty good paradox. Hate him for the Sox stadium deal as he is cheap. Love him as not cheap for stepping up with Wirtz to build UC for cash. :lol:

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pittmike

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:30 am

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
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Location: Everywhere
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FavreFan wrote:

still running the franchise like it’s the Charlotte Hornets. Cheap asshole.

He built a second, new practice facility after the Berto because more players lived downtown now. So cheap.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:32 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

pittmike wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

still running the franchise like it’s the Charlotte Hornets. Cheap asshole.

He built a second, new practice facility after the Berto because more players lived downtown now. So cheap.

Ill bet he pays for their equipment, too! and people call him cheap!

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:33 am

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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pittmike wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

still running the franchise like it’s the Charlotte Hornets. Cheap asshole.

He built a second, new practice facility after the Berto because more players lived downtown now. So cheap.

He's employing a guy who couldn't cut it as coach of Utah's college team as the head coach of the Bulls and is probably going to bring him back next year. Yes, cheap.

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Zippy-The-Pinhead

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:33 am

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:04 pm
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Location: God's country
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rogers park bryan wrote:

Terry's Peeps wrote:

Jbi11s wrote:

pittmike wrote:

Calling Reinsdorf cheap is lazy. His spending habits, philosophies etc are clear without resorting to lazy. They are also pretty different Sox to Bulls.

No he’s cheap.

It’s obvious. Not lazy.

It's just not true.

He has spent plenty of bad money on Ben Wallce, Adam Dunn, James Shields, etc. But the stuff people remember is trading a draft pick for cash.

That is ridiciulous. Signing one player to a max deal (in a league that has a salary floor right?) and two other guys on the downside of the career is not "spending money"

Spending money in pro sports means spending on great players.

Albert Belle counts. That was pretty much the last one.

Although many have blocked it from their memory, Ben Wallace was a top free agent when they signed him. They also paid Wade $47 million for 2 years. Both were bad decisions but not due to cheapness.

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pittmike

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:34 am

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
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FavreFan wrote:

pittmike wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

still running the franchise like it’s the Charlotte Hornets. Cheap asshole.

He built a second, new practice facility after the Berto because more players lived downtown now. So cheap.

He's employing a guy who couldn't cut it as coach of Utah's college team as the head coach of the Bulls and is probably going to bring him back next year. Yes, cheap.

Disagree that is a Paxson call but we just disagree.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:35 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Terry's Peeps wrote:

Jbi11s wrote:

pittmike wrote:

Calling Reinsdorf cheap is lazy. His spending habits, philosophies etc are clear without resorting to lazy. They are also pretty different Sox to Bulls.

No he’s cheap.

It’s obvious. Not lazy.

It's just not true.

He has spent plenty of bad money on Ben Wallce, Adam Dunn, James Shields, etc. But the stuff people remember is trading a draft pick for cash.

Although many have blocked it from their memory, Ben Wallace was a top free agent when they signed him. They also paid Wade $47 million for 2 years. Both were bad decisions but not due to cheapness.

I remember it but every team spends that much. That wasnt him stepping out. I believe there are rules in place that he would have been forced to spend most of that money regardless.

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Jbi11s

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:36 am

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:05 am
Posts: 28664
pizza_Place: Clamburger's

Bill Simmons is not the only national NBA guy to say things like this about the Bulls owner.

Needless to say, these sentiments are not restricted to the local area.

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Zippy-The-Pinhead

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:37 am

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:04 pm
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FavreFan wrote:

pittmike wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

pittmike wrote:

Calling Reinsdorf cheap is lazy. His spending habits, philosophies etc are clear without resorting to lazy. They are also pretty different Sox to Bulls.

No he's a cheap motherfucker. We're from Chicago mike, not Cleveland, Tampa Bay, or Oklahoma City.

In baseball I just don't see what else he was supposed to do but have hired better people than Schuler and Kenny. I was more upset with him from 84-the time Frank and Blackjack came along. Other than sign Fisk he let that whole era get away and the Cubs start the 1984 on era.

In the NBA again he stayed loyal to Krause until Phil and MJ were gone. That was not a cheap decision really. After that I feel there are larger factors like inept management especially cap wise and some unknown reason a huge FA will no longer come to thew Bulls.

He's never had a payroll in baseball that matched the market he's in, and he's never paid the luxury tax in the NBA when fielding a competitive team. There's no walking around that in a major market. He's a cheap, shitty owner.

They were top 5 in salary from 2006-2008.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:37 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Im hearing reports that Jerry paid for the jersey's Sale cut up (before they opted to trade homegrown generational talent Chris Sale) out of his own pocket.

The man spends when it's prudent!

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Juiced

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:38 am

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:06 am
Posts: 6872

Terry's Peeps wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

He was an amazing owner but something happened after 2005 that made him pretty complacent which explains his undeserved loyalty to certain guys.

Amazing

7 titles is pretty awesome.

You know what is not pretty awesome?

Deciding to break up the juggernaut and rebuild. That move cut costs to the extreme, along with maxing out profits for Reinsdorf and the other shareholders. #CHEAP!

He is still riding on the coat tails of Jordan after all these years of sucking.

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Zippy-The-Pinhead

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:43 am

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:04 pm
Posts: 13281
Location: God's country
pizza_Place: Gem City

rogers park bryan wrote:

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Terry's Peeps wrote:

Jbi11s wrote:

pittmike wrote:

Calling Reinsdorf cheap is lazy. His spending habits, philosophies etc are clear without resorting to lazy. They are also pretty different Sox to Bulls.

No he’s cheap.

It’s obvious. Not lazy.

It's just not true.

He has spent plenty of bad money on Ben Wallce, Adam Dunn, James Shields, etc. But the stuff people remember is trading a draft pick for cash.

Although many have blocked it from their memory, Ben Wallace was a top free agent when they signed him. They also paid Wade $47 million for 2 years. Both were bad decisions but not due to cheapness.

I remember it but every team spends that much. That wasnt him stepping out. I believe there are rules in place that he would have been forced to spend most of that money regardless.

Not at that point. The only time they approached the salary floor was those horrible post-Jordan years.

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Juiced

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:44 am

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:06 am
Posts: 6872

rogers park bryan wrote:

Darkside wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

But yes I’m willing to entertain it’s not his worst quality as an owner or a person. He fuckin sucks.

Dude cheap was Bill Wirtz. You can't put Reinsdorf in that league. He paid his superstars. He paid them well.

Who did he pay?

Michael Jordan and Albert Belle?

He under payed Jordan for years when he could have ripped up his contract and given him a new one like the Lakers did for Magic Johnson and the Boston Celtics did for Larry Bird, said that one day he would "regret" signing that contract after finally paying him what he was worth. #CHEAP!

That's for the player who made him an untold fortune. You can see where his mindset is and that's his pocketbook. #Worse then CHEAP!

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Don Tiny

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:48 am

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
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Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
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Unless I'm misremembering, I think a secondary bit of evidence as to Jerry being 'cheap' (or what have you) is a history of having his lackeys trot out in front of a mic and more or less blame the fans not showing up as a/the reason they can't/won't sign better players.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:52 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

I remember it but every team spends that much. That wasnt him stepping out. I believe there are rules in place that he would have been forced to spend most of that money regardless.

Not at that point. The only time they approached the salary floor was those horrible post-Jordan years.

After the Wallace signing, they were 21st in the league in payroll.

And almost every team had a max player at that point. Signing ONE doesnt qualify as "spending money"

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veganfan21

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:40 am

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm
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He made MJ the highest paid player ever for consecutive years during the last three peat. I plugged MJ's $30M/year back in 1997 into an inflation calculator and that figure is equivalent to $46M today if the calculation is accurate.

https://westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

Pretty sure Jackson was the highest paid coach at the time too.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:43 am

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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He just needs to employ the greatest athlete and greatest coach ever and then he will pay them fair market price! Not cheap! Fantastic evidence guys.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:47 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

FavreFan wrote:

He just needs to employ the greatest athlete and greatest coach ever and then he will pay them fair market price! Not cheap! Fantastic evidence guys.

AND they have to win 3 titles first.

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Nardi

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:50 am

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:19 pm
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I thought Michael Reinsdorf ran the Bulls.

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Terry's Peeps

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:50 am

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
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rogers park bryan wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

He just needs to employ the greatest athlete and greatest coach ever and then he will pay them fair market price! Not cheap! Fantastic evidence guys.

AND they have to win 3 titles first.

He's a result-oriented guy.

Smart.

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Darkside

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:53 am

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am
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So I guess plenty of people dispute this.

Anyway like i said if you compare anyone to Wirtz, none of them are cheap. None.
Do you think reinsdorf gets boo'd at his own memorial? I doubt that very much.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:54 am

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Darkside wrote:

Im not a big Hockey guy but from the outside looking in, Wirtz seems to go beyond normal cheapness.

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:55 am

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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Darkside wrote:

71% of us got it right.

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Brick

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92226
Location: To the left of my post

rogers park bryan wrote:

Terry's Peeps wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

He was an amazing owner but something happened after 2005 that made him pretty complacent which explains his undeserved loyalty to certain guys.

Amazing

7 titles is pretty awesome.

If he did anything other than suck enough to get in position to draft Jordan, I would give him more credit.

He gets some for putting the right pieces together, but amazing is a stretch, imo.

Please don't tell me you are one of those "The Bulls titles don't count" guys.

The supposed second best player of all time has delivered at most 2 titles to any owner and yet we are going to act like it was no big deal to deliver 6/6.5 titles in a row with the best player?

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FavreFan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:09 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
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Location: Palatine
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Terry's Peeps wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

He was an amazing owner but something happened after 2005 that made him pretty complacent which explains his undeserved loyalty to certain guys.

Amazing

7 titles is pretty awesome.

If he did anything other than suck enough to get in position to draft Jordan, I would give him more credit.

He gets some for putting the right pieces together, but amazing is a stretch, imo.

That's not true. Tim Duncan won 5 titles for his owner.

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Jaw Breaker

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:16 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:40 pm
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Reinsdorf is the front man but I don't know that he even owns 10% of the team(s). It's not really a Jerry Jones or Mark Cuban or Ricketts type of thing...maybe his partners are keeping the purse strings tight.

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Terry's Peeps

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:18 pm

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 68612
pizza_Place: Lina's Pizza

Jaw Breaker wrote:

Another cromulent point.

Looks like he owns 19% of the Sox and 40% of the Bulls.

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Last edited by Terry's Peeps on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rogers park bryan

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:20 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Terry's Peeps wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

He was an amazing owner but something happened after 2005 that made him pretty complacent which explains his undeserved loyalty to certain guys.

Amazing

7 titles is pretty awesome.

If he did anything other than suck enough to get in position to draft Jordan, I would give him more credit.

He gets some for putting the right pieces together, but amazing is a stretch, imo.

Ok, I wont tell you.

Ill simply ask this. If there was a different owner there in those years, do you think they win less titles? What exactly did Reinsdorf do?

And I find it difficult in general to know the amount of credit to give any owners when they have success, so this is more just my view overall.

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Brick

Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Dispute This?

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:24 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92226
Location: To the left of my post

rogers park bryan wrote:

Ok, I wont tell you.

Ill simply ask this. If there was a different owner there in those years, do you think they win less titles? What exactly did Reinsdorf do?

He hired/didn't fire the people who won 6/6.5 titles in a row with Jordan.

rogers park bryan wrote:

And I find it difficult in general to know the amount of credit to give any owners when they have success, so this is more just my view overall.

We are comparing them to other owners, including those who had similarly historic players even if not quite as good as Jordan was. I guess if your answer is that owners don't really matter then why are we mad at him for being bad at being an owner the past 10 or so years?

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