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Bill Simmons on Pax
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10084		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Juiced [ Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:50 pm ]
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I agree with the first part of his statement, but how was Pax suppose to move the Knicks pick in Dec, if "everyone and their brother could see a 35 win season for the Knicks coming." He wouldn't have got much in return.
Author:  Spinnin' Bucket [ Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:28 am ]
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I generally like Simmons, but most of that column was pure horseshit. He rips the Nets for not moving Kidd. They couldn't get anything for him. What the hell is Thorn supposed to do? Dump him for a pile of garbage, just for the sake of dumping him? He suggests that Philly could have moved Andre Miller to Portland for Magloire's expiring contract, Sergio Rodriguez, and a 1st round pick. Are you shitting me? No way the Blazers do that deal. Milwaukee could have traded Mo Williams and Bobby Simmons for expiring money and a pick? Think again, not happening. Jamal Crawford is an underrated player? LMFAO. Sacramento could've traded Bibby to the Lakers for picks and expiring contracts? Really? That's funny, because the Lakers don't have any expiring contracts (none that add up to Bibby's $15 mil contract, anyway). The Wizards are going to improve by trading their 1st round pick for Jamaal Magloire? Awful suggestion. Phoenix should trade their lottery pick (from Atlanta) with Kurt Thomas' expiring contract (which isn't expiring by the way) for Rashard Lewis? Yeah, I guess that Shawn Marion guy has really been holding them back at the SF position. Dallas could have sent expiring money along with Devin Harris for Jason Kidd? What? I'm not even going to bother with that one. He suggests the Grizzlies can rebuild around Gasol, Rudy G, Mike Miller, and Hakim Warrick? Please. Gasol and Rudy are guys you can build around. Miller is a glorified role player, and Hakim Warrick is living off his rep as a highly athletic prospect. Check back on that one 2 years from now. Warrick is a PF that doesn't rebound, has no mid range jumper, and can't bang in the post. Winning a dunk competition and winning basketball games are two different issues. As for the Bulls, his "trade for Gasol at all costs" argument is laughable. PJ, Gordon, Tyrus, and a mid lottery pick is a shitload to offer for a guy that isn't a top-5 player at his position. Not a good deal for us. I wanted Gasol, but I didn't want him at the expense of gutting our roster. And by the way, smartass, we got JR Smith with PJ Brown, not for him. Granted, a small error on his part, but if you're going to be an arrogant pud, at least get your facts straight.

He basically made 2 good points throughout the whole article. Isiah fucked up by dumping Jalen Rose via buyout. His expiring contract could've put them in a position to make a deal. And the Jason Richardson to Minnesota comment was interesting. Then again, the deal sounded much better for Minny than it did for Golden State, so it probably wouldn't have worked anyway.

Bill Simmons, enjoy your stuff most of the time, but this entire article could be submitted for the Who You Crappin' of the decade.
Author:  Beardown [ Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:42 am ]
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Can the Bulls win a championship with Gasol for Deng trade? No. They can't win a championship even if they got Garnett this year. That's the bottom line. I'm not convinced they can't make the finals as presently constituted. They can. But they can't beat the Suns, Mavs, or Spurs in a 7 game series.

It's obvious what Pax thought. I'm not gonna make a run to win the east while sacraficing a chance to win a championship in the next two years. Right or wrong that's what he thought. I agree with Pax however. It doesn't mean we will win it next year. But that's what Pax thought was the better chance at the ultimant goal of a title. I agree.
Author:  BD [ Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:31 pm ]
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Well, now that we're going into the off-season with Ben Wallace, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich, and Andres Nocioni as our base, the best way to improve our team, besides those guys getting better (Wallace has obviously already peaked) is so see Tyrus Thomas become a regular rotation player next season. We will also hopefully have a lottery pick as well, and I'm assuming we will add a big man there as well so this team does a have plenty of room to grow, but a lot depends on Thomas growing into the PF spot.

In free agency, with only the mid-level exception available to the Bulls this summer, does any know of any decent big men that Paxson could consider ?

As far as Garnett, I think Paxson would make an offer, but I just don't have much interest - first off, any trade would have to include an agreement by Garnett to not opt out of the deal, but I'm also not sure I want to trade 2 or 3 key pieces (the pick, probably Thomas, and then possibly Hinrich as we need to match salaries somehow, and this may not even be enough) for Garnett, who's still great, but for how much longer, and he's not a closer. (BTW, I think the only way we can make a Garnett move is to sign and trade Brown, right???)

I'd revisit Gasol talks, but I wouldn't be too optimistic there, and I'm not a big fan of Jermaine (can't play more than 2 straight games) O'Neal...would love to talk about Randolph more though.
Author:  Spinnin' Bucket [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:39 pm ]
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BD, the options for big men via the MLE are not that enticing. But then again, it’s the MLE, so you get what you pay for.

Since I was hoping for Pax to make a move with PJ’s contract, I haven’t devoted a great deal of time to scouring the 2nd & 3rd rate big men that will be available, but for starters I’d throw out names like:

Melvin Ely
Primoz Brezec
Chris Mihm
Jamaal Magloire

None of them excites me much, but each is a hell of a lot better than a Luke Schenscher or a Martynas Andriuskevicius. I’m getting way ahead of myself here, but if I had to give an early prediction on a roster for next season, I’d submit something along the lines of:

PG kirk hinrich
SG ben gordon
SF luol deng
PF tyrus thomas
C ben wallace

g thabo sefolosha
f andres nocioni
c spencer hawes (lottery pick)

pg chris duhon
gf adrian griffin
sf viktor khryapa
fc melvin ely (mid-level exception)

Assuming Noce gets extended, they’ll have 10 guys under contract for next season. The Knicks’ pick and the MLE signing should close the book on the active 12. The other 3 will probably be 2nd round picks and/or undrafted guys that Pax wants to get a closer look at.
Author:  BD [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:31 pm ]
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Thanks Buckets!

BTW, I know I read this in more than one spot, Jamaal Magloire could be let go in the next couple days...may just be Sam Smith throwing more shit on the wall to see what sticks, but any interest in adding him as a rotation player down the stretch, if this were to happen ?
Author:  BD [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:33 pm ]
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Spinnin' Bucket wrote:
BD, the options for big men via the MLE are not that enticing. But then again, it’s the MLE, so you get what you pay for.

Since I was hoping for Pax to make a move with PJ’s contract, I haven’t devoted a great deal of time to scouring the 2nd & 3rd rate big men that will be available, but for starters I’d throw out names like:

Melvin Ely
Primoz Brezec
Chris Mihm
Jamaal Magloire

None of them excites me much, but each is a hell of a lot better than a Luke Schenscher or a Martynas Andriuskevicius. I’m getting way ahead of myself here, but if I had to give an early prediction on a roster for next season, I’d submit something along the lines of:

PG kirk hinrich
SG ben gordon
SF luol deng
PF tyrus thomas
C ben wallace

g thabo sefolosha
f andres nocioni
c spencer hawes (lottery pick)

pg chris duhon
gf adrian griffin
sf viktor khryapa
fc melvin ely (mid-level exception)

Assuming Noce gets extended, they’ll have 10 guys under contract for next season. The Knicks’ pick and the MLE signing should close the book on the active 12. The other 3 will probably be 2nd round picks and/or undrafted guys that Pax wants to get a closer look at.


No big trades for an inside guy ?

It's early, but do you see the Bulls using the draft pick (probably in the 9-11 range) on a big guy ?
Author:  Spinnin' Bucket [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:24 pm ]
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Quote:
No big trades for an inside guy ?


I’m sure Pax will make another run at Garnett, and perhaps Jermaine/Gasol/etc. Hard to say what will go down; that’s why my prediction was relatively conservative and just included an MLE signing and the draft pick.

Also, regarding your sign & trade comments above, I’d have to do some digging into NBA rules on contracts. Everything runs through the commissioner’s office for approval, and I’d suspect there are regulations in place regarding contract integrity. Translation: you’re probably not allowed to give Michael Sweetney a one-year $18 mil deal in order to facilitate a Garnett trade (though I bet Sweets would appreciate that). It might be as simple as the commish flat-out rejecting the transaction, or there might actually be rules in place regulating how much cash you’re allowed to give on a 1-year deal. Either way, I wouldn’t recommend counting on giving a bloated one-year deal to one of our shitty players. If it were allowed, it would happen regularly, and off the top of my head, I can’t remember a single instance of such a transaction.

Quote:
It's early, but do you see the Bulls using the draft pick (probably in the 9-11 range) on a big guy ?


Absolutely. They’re already deep at both guard & forward. Pax will be looking for a big man, and an offensive one at that (and I mean scoring, not vulgar – I’ve always been a fan of the homonym :wink: ).

I’ve penciled in Spencer Hawes as an early projection, as he’d be my first choice among the 2nd tier big men in the draft. If the Knicks land us the 10th pick, for example, Hawes probably won’t be there. But, since this year’s pick will very likely be the last piece to our main rotation, barring a trade, I expect Pax will move up a few spots if necessary – whether that’s for Hawes or whoever his preference is. He can offer a future 1st round pick and/or up to $3 mil in cash. You really have to wait and see how the order shakes out, though. There should be a hearty amount of perimeter players on the board when the Bulls pick, so you’d have to find a team that is looking that direction and not at a young big man.
Author:  Spinnin' Bucket [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:01 pm ]
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Quote:
I know I read this in more than one spot, Jamaal Magloire could be let go in the next couple days...may just be Sam Smith throwing more shit on the wall to see what sticks, but any interest in adding him as a rotation player down the stretch, if this were to happen ?


Depends on who’s on Pax’s list for MLE bigs this summer. If Magloire is one of those guys, then it would be smart to snag him for a few hundred grand to play out the remainder of the season. That way, you’d get a good look at how he fits in without having to make a long-term offer to find out. If Pax has no interest in him as a multi-year role player, then I probably wouldn’t bother bringing him in at all. He’s not going to make or break their ability to advance in the playoffs, and he’d just be taking away minutes from Tyrus down the stretch run.
Author:  dstrez213 [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:02 pm ]
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Quote:
I’ve penciled in Spencer Hawes as an early projection, as he’d be my first choice among the 2nd tier big men in the draft. If the Knicks land us the 10th pick, for example


I've heard people say that Oden might stay at OSU, is that really possible? Someone said that Jillian Wright has already said hes staying and I havent heard anything about Brandon Wright. If a lot of freshman come out this could be a really good draft class.
Author:  MUScholar21 [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:57 pm ]
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All I know is that I almost pissed myself reading the line about the Miami Heat not dealing at the deadline. To paraphrase, he gave them an incomplete on his report card because they didn't know the extent of Wade's injury. Either that was the reason, or the Pat Riley couldn't pick up the phone because it was too covered with Stan Van Gundy's dried blood :lol:
Author:  Coast2Coast [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:21 am ]
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Hawes has some impressive post moves against the competition he faces in the largely defenseless Pac Ten. And he has a decent touch around the hoop. But the guys he is facing for the most part aren't bigger or stronger. Will he really be a lottery pick?
Author:  Spinnin' Bucket [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:58 am ]
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Coast, he’ll go in the top 10. But being a true freshman, it’s also possible that he declares next year. Either way, he won’t be in the waiting room long on draft night.

He’s not a monster at this stage, I’d agree with that. But, he’s 19 and his body will continue filling out for the next handful of years. Plus, he’s playing about 15 pounds light these days due to a lingering stomach virus. He should be in the 245 lbs range by draft time.

All the Bulls really need is a competent low post scorer, and Hawes is better than that. He doesn’t rebound a whole lot, but with Wallace & Tyrus around, the Bulls would be able to get by. Their next big man, whether it be via draft or free agency, doesn’t have to be a superstar. He just has to put the ball in the hole. I think Hawes would be an excellent fit if Pax can find a way to get him (or if the ping pong balls give us the right pick to begin with).
Author:  Tall Midget [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:03 pm ]
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Bucket--How many of the Bulls current players could start on a championship team, in your opinion? Let's assume they get someone like Gasol or O'Neal to fill the void in the paint.
Author:  Spinnin' Bucket [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:12 pm ]
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Midge, are you referring to today, or are you asking about the upside for individual players?
Author:  Tall Midget [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:59 pm ]
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Let's say in the next two years. In other words, if the Bulls were to somehow acquire an effective low post scorer, would they be serious title contenders? How much would the perimeter players benefit from such an addition? If someone like O'Neal or Gasol wouldn't be enough to push them to the top, what would?
Author:  Spinnin' Bucket [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:22 pm ]
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Depending on what you gave up in the deal, I do believe that Gasol or Jermaine could push you over the top. I just don’t see it happening within the next 2-3 months, that’s all. Outside of Big Ben and Nocioni, the most important players on this team going forward (Kirk, Gordon, Luol, Tyrus, Thabo, and the Knicks’ pick) will have a combined average age of about 23 next season. Excluding gymnastics, I can’t think of another sport where the athletes peak at age 23. It’s a building process that takes several years. Teams that tried to put everything together overnight (ie: the Cavs, the Clippers, the Pacers, etc) have seen first-hand the consequences of forcing a poor mix of players onto a roster. Pax is a patient & conservative GM. That can be frustrating at times, but in the long run, I trust that he’ll be able to put together a winner here.
Author:  BD [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:35 pm ]
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Spinnin' Bucket wrote:
Depending on what you gave up in the deal, I do believe that Gasol or Jermaine could push you over the top. I just don’t see it happening within the next 2-3 months, that’s all. Outside of Big Ben and Nocioni, the most important players on this team going forward (Kirk, Gordon, Luol, Tyrus, Thabo, and the Knicks’ pick) will have a combined average age of about 23 next season. Excluding gymnastics, I can’t think of another sport where the athletes peak at age 23. It’s a building process that takes several years. Teams that tried to put everything together overnight (ie: the Cavs, the Clippers, the Pacers, etc) have seen first-hand the consequences of forcing a poor mix of players onto a roster. Pax is a patient & conservative GM. That can be frustrating at times, but in the long run, I trust that he’ll be able to put together a winner here.


I would have been happy to have acquired Gasol, but if it was going to cost Deng/Gordon, Deng/Thomas/#1, etc., I don't think that team is really much better than the current team. Yes, trading Deng/Thomas/#1 probably would improved this year's team, but if you're trading 2 players from the core, I think you're treading water, staying about the same, and not really getting any better. Filling one hole, opening 2 more.
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