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Fixing The Bull
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Author:  Matches Malone [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Fixing The Bull
With one domino falling (Rose's departure) what other steps do the Bull need to make to right the ship?

I'm going under the assumption that Paxson still is and will be in power for the foreseeable future. And I'm still a believer that he can evaluate talent so I'm not too upset at that notion.

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Draft
We probably won't know till after tomorrow's draft but I'm assuming Butler doesn't get moved. I know Boston and Minnesota are making offers, but from reports, they're lowballing the Bull so I think Butler stays for this season. So then what?

You select Wade Baldwin at 14 and you shore up the PG spot for the foreseeable future. If you hit on Baldwin then your backcourt becomes very affordable for the next 4 - 5 years which would then allow for some big moves in Free Agency.

Free Ajency
Now of course you make a run at Durant, but the likelihood of landing him is slim to none so you must turn your attention elsewhere and you must do it fast. You're first look should be towards Al Horford which also means Taj has to move on. If Lopez is manning the middle (then no way Andre Drummond is doable) and a rookie is running the point, you're going to need some front court scoring and I think Horford fits the bill.

I would next target Nic Batum and let him run free in what hopefully is a more up-tempo offense this year. Prying him from Charlotte is going to take some creativity unless you overpay. And you better do it quickly before the Heat nab these guys for themselves.

DeMar DeRozan is the WC. If you decide Butler and Hoiberg can't work than DeRozan should be on your radar. It's probably going to take a max deal to lure him and I'm not sure I'd be too comfortable with that but then again, isn't that what Free-Ajency is? Overpaying to correct your mistakes.
Author:  NME [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Hoiberg is a wash. Maybe he improves after getting a season under him but I don't see it.


They aren't trading Butler. I think the Bulls had one move out of two assets to make and they ran with Rose and are sticking with Butler which is a good move imo.


Lopez shores up their 5 spot nicely from the deal and you get a back up 1 and a prospect back as well. I think going into the draft before the trade the Bulls may have been forced into looking to go big but getting a legit 5 back in the trade opens up some options for them.


I'm intrigued, but realistically this team isn't going anywhere it hasn't been the last few years. I don't see any big name FA's landing here and I predict the Bulls front office won't make a big push for a Kevin Durant -they'll spend time getting guys 'they really like' that fit what they do and fill out the roster because that's how they roll.


That's where I'm at with all this anyway.
Author:  312player [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
It starts @ the top...this team will never win under Paxson.


Reinsdorph is the cancer, he's gotta be ousted by the board to win, he chose that clown Krause over MJ and Phil..the Bulls could-should have won 10 titles.
Author:  NME [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
312player wrote:
It starts @ the top...this team will never win under Paxson.


Reinsdorph is the cancer, he's gotta be ousted by the board to win, he chose that clown Krause over MJ and Phil..the Bulls could-should have won 10 titles.




I think they could have won their 7th (4th in a row) in that shortened season if they didn't blow it up for basically no reason.


10 is doubtful. Even if MJ never retires that 1st time I don't think they could've stretched it that far.
Author:  312player [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
MJ made it look easy, I bet he only misses a couple months after his dads death if Reinsdorph and Krause weren't running things.
Author:  NME [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
312player wrote:
MJ made it look easy, I bet he only misses a couple months after his dads death if Reinsdorph and Krause weren't running things.




Those Houston teams were damn good. Bulls drop at least 1 series of those two against them imo.
Author:  312player [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Those Rocket teams were very good.. yes, but not Bulls-MJ good.
Author:  sinicalypse [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
"fixing the bull" sounds like it could be somehow related to "prepping the bull", which i have to admit made me chuckle when i saw this thread listed amongst the active topics #YesIamAHorriblePerson aka #CuckpacalypseNow!
Author:  RFDC [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
I see lots of talk about Wade Baldwin as the Bulls pick in the draft.

I pull up his profile on NBA Draft.net and his comparison is to Luther Head and Spencer Dinwiddie. That does not excite me much.

I watch a few videos on him. Still not impressed.

Why is he such a hot pick for the Bulls? What am I missing?
Author:  815 [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
RFDC wrote:
I see lots of talk about Wade Baldwin as the Bulls pick in the draft.

I pull up his profile on NBA Draft.net and his comparison is to Luther Head and Spencer Dinwiddie. That does not excite me much.

I watch a few videos on him. Still not impressed.

Why is he such a hot pick for the Bulls? What am I missing?


Does this make you feel any better? I'm personally a fan of him, but this makes sense if they are going to keep Jimmy around. A good shooter that can create some offense with Butler being the ball-dominant guard.

https://hoopshabit.com/2016/02/12/nba-m ... spects/14/
Author:  Douchebag [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.
Author:  Walt Williams Neck [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Douchebag wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.

The 1st one to call out Duh Mayor was Butler.....and guess what he's still here :!:
Author:  Douchebag [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.

The 1st one to call out Duh Mayor was Butler.....and guess what he's still here :!:

And they've been shopping him too. I'd be fine with moving on from Butler if they get something of value in return. It's the only real bargaining chip this team has right now.
Author:  ZephMarshack [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Douchebag wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.

Every time I think about giving Hoiberg the benefit of the doubt because of what he came into, I suddenly remember the awful playcalls out of timeouts and how he may as well have been a parrot just repeating the words "pace" and "tempo" whenever he was asked what the Bulls needed to do better. The Bulls are going to suck anyway, but I don't want any rebuild to cater exclusively to players for his system when it's far from clear that it works in the NBA.
Author:  Matches Malone [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.

The 1st one to call out Duh Mayor was Butler.....and guess what he's still here :!:

In fairness to Fred, he wasn't the only person associated with the team that had issues with Butler. That being said, another year of them butting heads does nothing for anybody. Either they've made up or Jimmy will be somewhere else tonight.
Author:  Nas [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
NME wrote:
312player wrote:
MJ made it look easy, I bet he only misses a couple months after his dads death if Reinsdorph and Krause weren't running things.




Those Houston teams were damn good. Bulls drop at least 1 series of those two against them imo.


I always felt that way too. The Bulls struggled with them during their championship run. It was a bad matchup.
Author:  Nas [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Douchebag wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.


Agreed. They also surrounded Hoiberg with YMCA coaches. They set him up to fail.
Author:  FrankDrebin [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Friedell tweeting that the Bulls covered up the windows of their front office personnel at the draft center. Could this mean something significant is going to happen or just another example of secrecy?
Author:  Walt Williams Neck [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Nas wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.


Agreed. They also surrounded Hoiberg with YMCA coaches. They set him up to fail.

This is the 1st I heard you say this ...odd it took you almost a year
Author:  Nas [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Nas wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.


Agreed. They also surrounded Hoiberg with YMCA coaches. They set him up to fail.

This is the 1st I heard you say this ...odd it took you almost a year


You should read my posts more. I definitely said the same thing MANY times. Hoiberg did suck but MANY teams surround rookie coaches with veteran coaches to help them develop.
Author:  long time guy [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Bulls should go full rebuild. Trade Butler. First on the agenda. Hopefully Sac can be a little better so they can obtain that pick next season. Free up money so they can be in the free agent game. This is 3 yr process minimum, so get ready for a lot of bad hoops. Whack Forman. Deal Taj. Gibson for a Maxwell Street Polish with hot peppers if you can do it. Strongly encourage Mike Dunleavy to retire or salary dump him if someone is stupid enough to take his tired ass.
Author:  Douchebag [ Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
long time guy wrote:
Strongly encourage Mike Dunleavy to retire or salary dump him if someone is stupid enough to take his tired ass.

This.

Gar should be whacked just for handing out that contract.
Author:  Nas [ Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Douchebag wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Strongly encourage Mike Dunleavy to retire or salary dump him if someone is stupid enough to take his tired ass.

This.

Gar should be whacked just for handing out that contract.


That contract only makes sense if they had a handshake agreement in place when he originally signed. Paxson should be charged or they both should be fired. Gar is an idiot.
Author:  Walt Williams Neck [ Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Nas wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Nas wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Coaching
I know Hoiberg has his detractors but I think it's still a bit too early to make a call on his coaching ability. In fairness to him and those of us who predicted much better success for the Bull last year, we were unaware of the issues between Butler and the rest of the squad. Those issues need to get sorted out one way or another. Strikes against him include not sticking to his guns and running things his way, as well as not putting the kibosh on whichever assistant coach was brought in to be a stooge for the front office. So going forward, can he and Butler co-exsist? If so then great but if not, a move needs to be made sooner rather than later.

Hiring Hoiberg with the veteran heavy roster going into last season was a major mistake. I knew that was going to blow up in his face, and I called them missing the playoffs before the season began. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt if the Bulls are going into a full rebuilding project. He has success at the college level, and could possibly work well with a team trying to go very young. The Bulls should have either held onto Thibs for one extra year, or they should have started dismantling this team after last season. Bringing a new rookie coach into a situation where the entire roster was staying and many on that roster were very loyal to the previous coach was a recipe for disaster.

in the style of RPB and Douchebag show me

Agreed. They also surrounded Hoiberg with YMCA coaches. They set him up to fail.

This is the 1st I heard you say this ...odd it took you almost a year


You should read my posts more. I definitely said the same thing MANY times. Hoiberg did suck but MANY teams surround rookie coaches with veteran coaches to help them develop.
Author:  RFDC [ Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Nas wrote:
Gar is an idiot.


He sure is. Should be fired immediately.

How about the whole "we did not shop Butler" narrative that has come out.

Surely he does not think people are that stupid.
Author:  schmitty1121 [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Gar should be fired just for the "Gasol is part of the core" comment he made at the deadline. Still beyond ridiculous he wasn't moved for something. I really hope Rose puts up monster numbers with the Knicks.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
I'm fixing the Bull where the rain gets in, and stops my Gar from wondering
Author:  ZephMarshack [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
Quote:
“It’s all about ’17 for them,’’ a league source said.

The hope is the Bulls will be competitive this upcoming season, showing off Butler and Lopez, along with youth like Doug McDermott, Grant, and Denzel Valentine, who they landed with the 14th overall pick Thursday. And will take that package into the 2017 offseason with cap space for possibly two maximum players in a summer loaded with talented free agents such as Stephen Curry, Russell Westbrook, Blake Griffin and Kyle Lowry.
Yeah guys show off these players in a season-long battle for 8 seed.
Author:  long time guy [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
ZephMarshack wrote:
Quote:
“It’s all about ’17 for them,’’ a league source said.

The hope is the Bulls will be competitive this upcoming season, showing off Butler and Lopez, along with youth like Doug McDermott, Grant, and Denzel Valentine, who they landed with the 14th overall pick Thursday. And will take that package into the 2017 offseason with cap space for possibly two maximum players in a summer loaded with talented free agents such as Stephen Curry, Russell Westbrook, Blake Griffin and Kyle Lowry.
Yeah guys show off these players in a season-long battle for 8 seed.


Not the cap space trick again. The upper echelon max guys will more than likely resign with their current team. The Bulls will end up overpaying for guys that really aren't max players. In an effort to do something they will end up hurting the team even more.
Author:  Nas [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fixing The Bull
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
Quote:
“It’s all about ’17 for them,’’ a league source said.

The hope is the Bulls will be competitive this upcoming season, showing off Butler and Lopez, along with youth like Doug McDermott, Grant, and Denzel Valentine, who they landed with the 14th overall pick Thursday. And will take that package into the 2017 offseason with cap space for possibly two maximum players in a summer loaded with talented free agents such as Stephen Curry, Russell Westbrook, Blake Griffin and Kyle Lowry.
Yeah guys show off these players in a season-long battle for 8 seed.


Not the cap space trick again. The upper echelon max guys will more than likely resign with their current team. The Bulls will end up overpaying for guys that really aren't max players. In an effort to do something they will end up hurting the team even more.


We all know how this movie ends.
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