ill watch it. what else is there to do.

Internet porn?

Jerry and Michael Reinsdorf, along with Gar, are in attendance tonight. Hopefully the Bulls lose by 20 and they blow this thing up tomorrow.

I hope Fred continues to experiment with the Rondo/MCW/Grant/Wade/Taj lineup in the second half. That seems like a unit with precisely the right amount of offensive firepower to realize his system's fullest potential.

I hope Fred continues to experiment with the Rondo/MCW/Grant/Wade/Taj lineup in the second half. That seems like a unit with precisely the right amount of offensive firepower to realize his system's fullest potential.

But Hillary...

ltg complaining about other people being obsessed with particular targets and past grudges remains rich as always. Thanks for linking that thread, where my one comment clearly showed my obsession with Thibs and belief that the Wolves would do amazing this year.

As usual the only thing substantive you can say about Hoiberg's coaching is that the team wasn't supposed to be good anyway and that literally everyone but you is criticizing him in bad faith. What did you think of that particular rotation that I posted about? Did you think it was likely to find much success on the offensive end of the court?

No I don't believe that it is a recipe for success. I fell asleep during the first quarter so I didn't see much of the game.

I will say this though. If the Bulls finish where all of the "experts" had them predicted to finish it is foolish to say that Hoiberg is doing a terrible job. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that had them at 45 wins. I did and that looks stupid at this point. The Hoiberg detractors on here all had the Bulls finishing with a lousy to mediocre record based on personnel yet once they finish with said record it somehow is due to the coach.


As far Thibs goes I will continue to belabor the point. When he wasn't coaching he was the cure to all that ails. Few Hoiberg discussions could take place without his name being invoked. Now that he is actually coaching with his team doing terribly conveniently no one wants to discuss it. It has now become an "obsession". That is B.S. since it was the people on here that chose to have Hoiberg and Thibs linked in the first place. All Hoiberg analysis last season was always in conjunction with theories on what the great Thibs would have done.

You very hypocritically I might add, had no problem comparing the offensive statistics of Thibs and Hoiberg last season. Was that an obsession?

Now that he is being exposed as a coach you and quite a few others are trying to run from it. Was it an obsession when he was hired and no less than 3 threads were initiated touting the future greatness of Timberwolves basketball?


Now everyone has amnesia or worse Adamle like dementia whenever his damn name is invoked. Bite me with the hypocrisy.

Glad my comment about a game you didn't actually see much of pissed you off so much to launch this string of replies. You love to accuse everyone of having an agenda yet here you are with 5 posts about a game you didn't watch, all prompted by my one line criticism of the offensive coach putting in a lineup with no shooting (a criticism you now concede as valid).

You are as negatively obsessed with Thibs as anyone ever was positively. I don't even know what thread you're referring to when you whine about my "hypocrisy" but it was most likely in response to you crying about Thibs like usual or perhaps in response to the notion that he was somehow holding the Bulls back offensively.

And it's hilariously convenient for you to accuse others of amnesia and running from threads given this gem from the season before; why didn't you bump it as much as the Wolves threads from this season? http://www.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopi ... 34&t=94850

That thread also shows why your reliance on predictions this season is so pointless as well. Hoiberg wasn't randomly dropped on the sidelines this year. Everyone who followed the league got an idea of what he brought to the table last season. His coaching talent or lack thereof was as much of an input for the predictions that the Bulls would finish with a mediocre record this season as the personnel.

You are the same hypocrite that bashed Garpax for the Wade and Rondo moves all while blaming everything on Hoiberg. It can't be both. Either the Bulls have talent or they don't.

That's a ludicrous oversimplification. Garpax and Hoiberg can both be bad/wrong/inept.

No it isn't. Where has Hoiberg necessarily been terrible if all of the prognostications have the Bulls to finish right where they are at now? Riddle me that Batman

Your obession with Hoiberg is much greater by the way. You can't go a single game (conveniently whenever they lose) without pointing out his ineptitude. You are the same hypocrite that bashed Garpax for the Wade and Rondo moves all while blaming everything on Hoiberg. It can't be both. Either the Bulls have talent or they don't.

Once again as far as Thibs goes you had no problem touting his greatness when you thought it convenient. For whatever Hoiberg is or isn't he is still performing where he was expected to perform. Thibs isn't and now you choose to focus on my "obsession" rather than admit you had it wrong.

Zeph just knocked LTG out.

Hoiberg sucks. Period. The Wolves, in a tougher conference, was taste more success (records, playoff appearances, etc.) than Hoiberg ever will.

Hoiberg led Bulls are 6 games better and yet he is a terrible coach.

Hoiberg signed off on Wade and Rondo as much as anyone, so no, it's not the least bit hypocritical to slam the signings and also slam his coaching. As I said in the offseason, I don't want to hear complaints about too much heroball getting in the way of his system when he decided it was great to add two more ball dominant guys to stick next to Butler, especially when one of them that he enthusiastically endorsed (Rondo) hasn't been particularly good at basketball for a while.

Again and again, whenever anyone points out tangible shortcomings in his coaching, be it the herky jerk substitutions, the complete lack of defense, seemingly no authoritative control of the locker room, young players regressing rather than improving, questionable rotations, or awful plays off of timeouts, all you can do to respond is stick your fingers in your ears, whine about the roster, and say everyone's being a meanie because they love Thibs too much. You have no response to the point that the Bulls predicted record this year didn't just speak to the perception of the talent the Bulls had but also his very coaching ability. The season before that, by contrast, was when Hoiberg was an actual wild card. Did he live up to your 55 win prediction?

Finally as JLN correctly notes GarPax can suck and Fred can suck too. You are attempting to create a false dichotomy. Literally no one has ever argued that Fred is the main problem with the Bulls. What has been argued is that he's just another instance of GarPax's failures, just like their bad draft picks, just like the lack of any sort of free agency strategy, just like their insistence on holding onto guys so long.

I agree

Yet again you miss the forest for the trees. This isn't about just wins and losses. It's about leadership, accountability, professionalism, and consistency. Hoiberg brings none of that.

Now it's about the Wolves being in a tougher conf. They are currently 13th. This doesn't happen under Thibs coached teams remember. They are on pace to have the same record as last season in spite of the fact that Towns is arguably a top 10 player right now. Hoiberg led Bulls are 6 games better and yet he is a terrible coach.

Bad transition defense, bad rotation on defense, complete lack of progression by any young players (some are even regressing), the Niko Pump Fake (he went from using it terribly, to never using it, to now using it terribly again), "Jimmy is doing his job, I'm doing my job", "My vets wouldn't....", generally lackadaisical on 50/50 balls, overall poor situational awareness...I mean, pretty much everything that a head coach is responsible for (defensive and offensive tactics, player awareness and drive, controlling the locker room, progressing young talent) Fred has been an abject failure at, and it's only Year 2. It's not Fred's fault that the team can't stretch the floor, can't hit from behind the arc, and have a severe lack of scoring depth from the frontcourt and backcourt, but it isn't his job to do those things, his job, or rather his fingerprints, are on everything I listed above.