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Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked
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Author:  St. Louis Bull Man [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

I see that there has not been a post for days on the forum. Maybe it's an anomaly, maybe it's the end of interest in the team that will last until we get good again. What gives, guys?

Image Image

PG Jerian Grant
SG Kris Dunn :shock:
SF Quincy Pondexter :shock:
PF Lauri Markkanen
C Robin Lopez

PGRussell Westbrook
SGAndre Roberson
SFPaul George
PFJerami Grant
CDakari Johnson

Injuries
Nikola MiroticOUT
Justin HolidayOUT
Zach LaVineOUT
Cameron PayneOUT
David Nwaba

Author:  '77Cubs [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

Interest is arguably at an all time low in the post Jordan era. Here's hoping they get the top pick or no worse than a top 3. And Gar/Pax better not fuck it up.

Author:  IMU [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

Hoiberg is so fucking clueless. The more he plays Grant and Dunn together, the more his offensive scheme seems stupid, and it stunts their growth as point guards. Which is all either of them could be, even with good coaching.

I swear to God Vinny del Negro was a better coach.

Author:  Walt Williams Neck [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

IMU wrote:
Hoiberg is so fucking clueless. The more he plays Grant and Dunn together, the more his offensive scheme seems stupid, and it stunts their growth as point guards. Which is all either of them could be, even with good coaching.

I swear to God Vinny del Negro was a better coach.

Image

Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

27-7 after 1 :lol:

Author:  IMU [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

FavreFan wrote:
27-7 after 1 :lol:

FUN BAD

Author:  City of Fools [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

IMU wrote:
Hoiberg is so fucking clueless. The more he plays Grant and Dunn together, the more his offensive scheme seems stupid, and it stunts their growth as point guards. Which is all either of them could be, even with good coaching.

I swear to God Vinny del Negro was a better coach.

I just don't think Grant will be a long term NBA player. He plays so incredibly timid.

Author:  Peoria Matt [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

In the car listening and Wennington couldn't even talk because he was laughing so much over one of Westbrook's dunks. Then Swirsky started laughing.

City of Fools wrote:
I just don't think Grant will be a long term NBA player. He plays so incredibly timid.


Agree 100%.

Author:  ZephMarshack [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

IMU wrote:
Hoiberg is so fucking clueless. The more he plays Grant and Dunn together, the more his offensive scheme seems stupid, and it stunts their growth as point guards. Which is all either of them could be, even with good coaching.

I swear to God Vinny del Negro was a better coach.

But just look how much more freeflowing and enjoyable to watch this offense is now!

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

This year isn't an indicator of what kind of coach Hoiberg happens to be. The Bulls have the least talented team in the league. Yeah I know a better coach would have a much better record. Yadda yadda yadda.

Author:  ZephMarshack [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

long time guy wrote:
This year isn't an indicator of what kind of coach Hoiberg happens to be. The Bulls have the least talented team in the league. Yeah I know a better coach would have a much better record. Yadda yadda yadda.

And the first year wasn't either all because of those darned injuries. But the second year, where he scrapped into the playoffs in an East that was miles weaker than it is this year, was a definite indicator of his impeccable coaching prowess.

Author:  denisdman [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

Well he certainly has physical practices, ask Niko.

Author:  IMU [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

I see no development in any player under Hoiberg. I've seen players regress. I've seen him clash with multiple players. I've seen multiple instances of discord within the locker room. I see Hoiberg starting two PG's that can't shoot in the same lineup while touting that his offense needs many shooters on the court to space the offense.

He has failed as an NBA coach in every single way imaginable.

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This year isn't an indicator of what kind of coach Hoiberg happens to be. The Bulls have the least talented team in the league. Yeah I know a better coach would have a much better record. Yadda yadda yadda.

And the first year wasn't either all because of those darned injuries. But the second year, where he scrapped into the playoffs in an East that was miles weaker than it is this year, was a definite indicator of his impeccable coaching prowess.



Yeah no matter what he does he is going to be a terrible coach in your opinion. Let that be the premise and we can keep it moving.

Author:  IMU [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This year isn't an indicator of what kind of coach Hoiberg happens to be. The Bulls have the least talented team in the league. Yeah I know a better coach would have a much better record. Yadda yadda yadda.

And the first year wasn't either all because of those darned injuries. But the second year, where he scrapped into the playoffs in an East that was miles weaker than it is this year, was a definite indicator of his impeccable coaching prowess.



Yeah no matter what he does he is going to be a terrible coach in your opinion. Let that be the premise and we can keep it moving.

What are the Top 3 things you like about Hoiberg. What are the 3 things you can point to and give him credit for, or say he does well at?

Author:  denisdman [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

That was a great in bounds pass.

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

IMU wrote:
I see no development in any player under Hoiberg. I've seen players regress. I've seen him clash with multiple players. I've seen multiple instances of discord within the locker room. I see Hoiberg starting two PG's that can't shoot in the same lineup while touting that his offense needs many shooters on the court to space the offense.

He has failed as an NBA coach in every single way imaginable.



He made the playoffs last season and exceeded the expectations of MANY of the experts on this very board.

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

IMU wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This year isn't an indicator of what kind of coach Hoiberg happens to be. The Bulls have the least talented team in the league. Yeah I know a better coach would have a much better record. Yadda yadda yadda.

And the first year wasn't either all because of those darned injuries. But the second year, where he scrapped into the playoffs in an East that was miles weaker than it is this year, was a definite indicator of his impeccable coaching prowess.



Yeah no matter what he does he is going to be a terrible coach in your opinion. Let that be the premise and we can keep it moving.

What are the Top 3 things you like about Hoiberg. What are the 3 things you can point to and give him credit for, or say he does well at?



I actually like his offensive sets.
I like the fact that his players make the extra pass.
Markannen appears to be developing nicely

He is a really good offensive coach.

Author:  IMU [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
I see no development in any player under Hoiberg. I've seen players regress. I've seen him clash with multiple players. I've seen multiple instances of discord within the locker room. I see Hoiberg starting two PG's that can't shoot in the same lineup while touting that his offense needs many shooters on the court to space the offense.

He has failed as an NBA coach in every single way imaginable.



He made the playoffs last season and exceeded the expectations of MANY of the experts on this very board.

Making the playoffs and losing in the first round is not much of an accomplishment. Much of the board had the Bulls win total pretty much right where it ended up being. I had them at a game or two under .500.

If his crowning achievement in two years is making the playoffs once, with a carry over roster that had already made the playoffs a ton in the previous five seasons well... not sure I'm going to give him a lot of credit for that.

Author:  IMU [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

long time guy wrote:
He is a really good offensive coach.

Bulls score the fewest points in the league. All Markannen does is shoot. He did not even have an assist until his 4th game. His offensive sets? "Do you have the ball? Are you behind the three point line? Shoot!" That isn't an offensive set.

I don't care who your players are. A "really good offensive coach" would not have a team dead last in terms of scoring. Or does your eye test tell you that the Bulls score all the time?

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

IMU wrote:
long time guy wrote:
IMU wrote:
I see no development in any player under Hoiberg. I've seen players regress. I've seen him clash with multiple players. I've seen multiple instances of discord within the locker room. I see Hoiberg starting two PG's that can't shoot in the same lineup while touting that his offense needs many shooters on the court to space the offense.

He has failed as an NBA coach in every single way imaginable.



He made the playoffs last season and exceeded the expectations of MANY of the experts on this very board.

Making the playoffs and losing in the first round is not much of an accomplishment. Much of the board had the Bulls win total pretty much right where it ended up being. I had them at a game or two under .500.

If his crowning achievement in two years is making the playoffs once, with a carry over roster that had already made the playoffs a ton in the previous five seasons well... not sure I'm going to give him a lot of credit for that.



What do you expect him to do with this roster? You do realize that this roster was constructed in order to lose games.

Author:  ZephMarshack [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This year isn't an indicator of what kind of coach Hoiberg happens to be. The Bulls have the least talented team in the league. Yeah I know a better coach would have a much better record. Yadda yadda yadda.

And the first year wasn't either all because of those darned injuries. But the second year, where he scrapped into the playoffs in an East that was miles weaker than it is this year, was a definite indicator of his impeccable coaching prowess.



Yeah no matter what he does he is going to be a terrible coach in your opinion. Let that be the premise and we can keep it moving.

No, no matter what you're going to wave away any criticism of him all for the most glorious feat of reaching the 8th seed with a team that just two seasons prior should have been in the NBA finals (and would have been if they had the benefit of Hoiberg's offensive genius against the Cavs).

Author:  Don Tiny [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

PSA - The Blackhawks seem to have returned for at least this evening if you've tired of this "team".

They just scored as I typed this .... 4-1 good guys.

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This year isn't an indicator of what kind of coach Hoiberg happens to be. The Bulls have the least talented team in the league. Yeah I know a better coach would have a much better record. Yadda yadda yadda.

And the first year wasn't either all because of those darned injuries. But the second year, where he scrapped into the playoffs in an East that was miles weaker than it is this year, was a definite indicator of his impeccable coaching prowess.



Yeah no matter what he does he is going to be a terrible coach in your opinion. Let that be the premise and we can keep it moving.

No, no matter what you're going to wave away any criticism of him all for the most glorious feat of reaching the 8th seed with a team that just two seasons prior should have been in the NBA finals (and would have been if they had the benefit of Hoiberg's offensive genius against the Cavs).



There isn't a Bull from his first year as coach that is currently playing a prominent role on any of the contending teams. His team was injury riddled that first year.

He did a better job of coaching his team last year than the guy he replaced did with coaching his.

Do you care to discuss That?

Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

Great game today.

Author:  ZephMarshack [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

long time guy wrote:
There isn't a Bull from his first year as coach that is currently playing a prominent role on any of the contending teams. His team was injury riddled that first year.
He did a better job of coaching his team last year than the guy he replaced did with coaching his.

Do you care to discuss That?

It's hilarious how you want to invoke the Thibs comparisons while now suddenly decrying the quality of the team Hoiberg inherited and completely missed the playoffs with. Even if I grant for the sake of argument the premise that the 2015-2016 Bulls did not feature any players with prominent roles on any of the currently contending teams (a notion that is strained to say the least given the starting positions that Rose, Butler, and Gasol currently play), that makes Thibodeau's achievements with a roster similarly lacking in such players a case of overachieving, not fireable underachieving. Trying to knock the roster of the team that Hoiberg failed to even make the playoffs with only makes what Thibodeau did the preceding season look better.

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
There isn't a Bull from his first year as coach that is currently playing a prominent role on any of the contending teams. His team was injury riddled that first year.
He did a better job of coaching his team last year than the guy he replaced did with coaching his.

Do you care to discuss That?

It's hilarious how you want to invoke the Thibs comparisons while now suddenly decrying the quality of the team Hoiberg inherited and completely missed the playoffs with. Even if I grant for the sake of argument the premise that the 2015-2016 Bulls did not feature any players with prominent roles on any of the currently contending teams (a notion that is strained to say the least given the starting positions that Rose, Butler, and Gasol currently play), that makes Thibodeau's achievements with a roster similarly lacking in such players a case of overachieving, not fireable underachieving. Trying to knock the roster of the team that Hoiberg failed to even make the playoffs with only makes what Thibodeau did the preceding season look better.


The Bulls had far more injuries in Hoibergs first than they had in Thibs last year. That was the difference. If Thibs is the coach that you keep suggesting then let's see what he will do with Minnesota. The Bulls thing is done. Time to move on.

Hoiberg didn't have the luxury of coaching that team. They were injury riddled.

Twice as many injuries. That is what the numbers say.


If Thibs is that guy then let's see what he does in Minnesota.

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

This is a roster stacked with D leaguers and rotation guys. When the Bulls are good again there will only be 2 guys from this current team on the roster. Hoiberg will be gone too.

Author:  ZephMarshack [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
There isn't a Bull from his first year as coach that is currently playing a prominent role on any of the contending teams. His team was injury riddled that first year.
He did a better job of coaching his team last year than the guy he replaced did with coaching his.

Do you care to discuss That?

It's hilarious how you want to invoke the Thibs comparisons while now suddenly decrying the quality of the team Hoiberg inherited and completely missed the playoffs with. Even if I grant for the sake of argument the premise that the 2015-2016 Bulls did not feature any players with prominent roles on any of the currently contending teams (a notion that is strained to say the least given the starting positions that Rose, Butler, and Gasol currently play), that makes Thibodeau's achievements with a roster similarly lacking in such players a case of overachieving, not fireable underachieving. Trying to knock the roster of the team that Hoiberg failed to even make the playoffs with only makes what Thibodeau did the preceding season look better.


The Bulls had far more injuries in Hoibergs first than they had in Thibs last year. That was the difference. If Thibs is the coach that you keep suggesting then let's see what he will do with Minnesota. The Bulls thing is done. Time to move on.

Hoiberg didn't have the luxury of coaching that team. They were injury riddled.

Twice as many injuries. That is what the numbers say.


If Thibs is that guy then let's see what he does in Minnesota.

You're the last person who should tell anyone to move on since your weak defenses of Hoiberg are always accompanied by a Thibs reference, even when no one has been discussing him at all. One can think Thibs is the most overrated coach in the history of the league and still see that Hoiberg is a crap coach.

Your attempts to cite things Hoiberg actually does well are weak to say the least. His offensive sets have resulted in 2 seasons of below average offenses in pretty much every statistical category in the league. His plays off of timeouts for an offensive coach are especially terrible for such a supposed visionary. His player development has been awful and this is being highlighted even more now with the improvements that guys like Snell and McDermott have demonstrated once they got away from Hoiberg. This doesn't even get into his glaring weaknesses rather than his supposed strengths, such as the utter lack of any defensive discipline, the completely random and unjustified rotation decisions, and the awful atmosphere that's been allowed to fester under his watch.

I suppose none of this matters though because Bulls fans will always have that miraculous 2016-2017 season, where Coach Hoiberg miraculously led the Bulls to the 8th seed in the East thanks to his vision and leadership. We'll be talking about that season for years to come.

Author:  long time guy [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bulls@OKC - We are Fucked

ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
There isn't a Bull from his first year as coach that is currently playing a prominent role on any of the contending teams. His team was injury riddled that first year.
He did a better job of coaching his team last year than the guy he replaced did with coaching his.

Do you care to discuss That?

It's hilarious how you want to invoke the Thibs comparisons while now suddenly decrying the quality of the team Hoiberg inherited and completely missed the playoffs with. Even if I grant for the sake of argument the premise that the 2015-2016 Bulls did not feature any players with prominent roles on any of the currently contending teams (a notion that is strained to say the least given the starting positions that Rose, Butler, and Gasol currently play), that makes Thibodeau's achievements with a roster similarly lacking in such players a case of overachieving, not fireable underachieving. Trying to knock the roster of the team that Hoiberg failed to even make the playoffs with only makes what Thibodeau did the preceding season look better.


The Bulls had far more injuries in Hoibergs first than they had in Thibs last year. That was the difference. If Thibs is the coach that you keep suggesting then let's see what he will do with Minnesota. The Bulls thing is done. Time to move on.

Hoiberg didn't have the luxury of coaching that team. They were injury riddled.

Twice as many injuries. That is what the numbers say.


If Thibs is that guy then let's see what he does in Minnesota.

You're the last person who should tell anyone to move on since your weak defenses of Hoiberg are always accompanied by a Thibs reference, even when no one has been discussing him at all. One can think Thibs is the most overrated coach in the history of the league and still see that Hoiberg is a crap coach.

Your attempts to cite things Hoiberg actually does well are weak to say the least. His offensive sets have resulted in 2 seasons of below average offenses in pretty much every statistical category in the league. His plays off of timeouts for an offensive coach are especially terrible for such a supposed visionary. His player development has been awful and this is being highlighted even more now with the improvements that guys like Snell and McDermott have demonstrated once they got away from Hoiberg. This doesn't even get into his glaring weaknesses rather than his supposed strengths, such as the utter lack of any defensive discipline, the completely random and unjustified rotation decisions, and the awful atmosphere that's been allowed to fester under his watch.

I suppose none of this matters though because Bulls fans will always have that miraculous 2016-2017 season, where Coach Hoiberg miraculously led the Bulls to the 8th seed in the East thanks to his vision and leadership. We'll be talking about that season for years to come.



You demonstrated that you don't have much in the way of objectivity last year. They outperformed what all the experts suggested and you still bashed the hell out of Hoiberg. I started on Thibs when the team underperformed. That is the difference.

You never provided an expectation as to where the team was supposed to be record wise so that you could leave a little room for your non stop Hoiberg bashing. I know Leash hates predictions but this is why they are good. You purposely attempted to be vague so that you could nuance your way to management bashing. It's old hat now.

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