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| Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=128904 |
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| Author: | The Missing Link [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Pretty interesting read on the collapse of the Bulls Dynasty. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls ... -his-words |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Something that happens as you get older is that you realize Krause Was Right, not so much because of the facts but because you've become a member of the professional-managerial class and it makes you feel better about yourself to associate with spreadsheets and reports than with the sort of transcendent talent you turned out never to have. |
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| Author: | Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
The Missing Link wrote: Pretty interesting read on the collapse of the Bulls Dynasty. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls ... -his-words That is interesting. I don’t recall if Jackson ever corroborated the story or denied it (as it pertained to him). |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
I believe this story had already been told. The only problem is Krause was trying to do this since the win against Seattle. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Phil would have stayed around if Krause didn't have extremely poor social skills. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
veganfan21 wrote: Phil would have stayed around if Krause didn't have extremely poor social skills. The great Tim Floyd would disagree about his social skills. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
John Paxson's Tim Floyd moment is named Fred Hoiberg. |
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| Author: | denisdman [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote: The Missing Link wrote: Pretty interesting read on the collapse of the Bulls Dynasty. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls ... -his-words That is interesting. I don’t recall if Jackson ever corroborated the story or denied it (as it pertained to him). That was well said and probably true. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. Purdue for Rodman Bison Dele/Brian Williams Toni Kukoc Ron Harper |
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| Author: | denisdman [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
I don’t really care how the Bulls got there. They have as many championships in my lifetime as all the other four teams combined. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. Purdue for Rodman Bison Dele/Brian Williams Toni Kukoc Ron Harper Iirc Rodman was more of a Reinsdorf hire. Harper was perceived as damaged goods but more importantly, a good friend of MJ. Williams wasn't really anything but a nice bench player and Kukoc never lived up to his billing. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Regular Reader wrote: veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. Purdue for Rodman Bison Dele/Brian Williams Toni Kukoc Ron Harper Iirc Rodman was more of a Reinsdorf hire. Harper was perceived as damaged goods but more importantly, a good friend of MJ. Williams wasn't really anything but a nice bench player and Kukoc never lived up to his billing. Strongly disagree on Kukoc, my friend. He was a 6th man of the year player for the second three peat teams and a key cog. They're not winning anything without Kukoc providing offense when Pippen couldn't. Williams was a luxury center that helped seal the 5th ring. He was way more athletic than longley and whoever else they had at the 5. |
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| Author: | Nardi [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Odds were very remote for a 7th(I was shocked they got a 6th), but they were owed the chance. Phil could be bought, Krause could be bought to hide in a corner for a year. In the end, this is on Reinsdorf. He was the one who thought Krause was a basketball wizard, when in reality, 90% of the wizardry(Go Wizards) was from 23. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. Purdue for Rodman Bison Dele/Brian Williams Toni Kukoc Ron Harper Iirc Rodman was more of a Reinsdorf hire. Harper was perceived as damaged goods but more importantly, a good friend of MJ. Williams wasn't really anything but a nice bench player and Kukoc never lived up to his billing. Strongly disagree on Kukoc, my friend. He was a 6th man of the year player for the second three peat teams and a key cog. They're not winning anything without Kukoc providing offense when Pippen couldn't. Williams was a luxury center that helped seal the 5th ring. He was way more athletic than longley and whoever else they had at the 5. Kukoc was supposed to be a perennial all star, couldn't play any defense and is only remembered for getting scorched in the Olympics and the 1.8 shot. Sixth man award was nice but I don't recall him really playing a big role in the playoffs other than the one shot. Now facts are that with Jordan around there wasn't much he was asked to do, but I still think he was overloved. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. Purdue for Rodman Bison Dele/Brian Williams Toni Kukoc Ron Harper San Antonio would have accepted a bag of balls in the Rodman trade. That wasn't some mastermind deal. It was a gamble and it worked. |
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| Author: | Nardi [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
If anything, the Olympics showed Kukoc was a project. Then he turned out to be a solid NBA player and the foundation on how Europeans get to the NBA. Why he gets no love isn't on him. It's on unknowledgeable media and fans. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Nardi wrote: If anything, the Olympics showed Kukoc was a project. Then he turned out to be a solid NBA player and the foundation on how Europeans get to the NBA. Why he gets no love isn't on him. It's on unknowledgeable media and fans. Solid is an appropriate description. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
There's a clip in The Last Dance where Kerr is like "Krause would go scouting with his Bulls shirt turned inside-out so no one knew it was him. I don't know why he just didn't wear a different shirt." |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Curious Hair wrote: There's a clip in The Last Dance where Kerr is like "Krause would go scouting with his Bulls shirt turned inside-out so no one knew it was him. I don't know why he just didn't wear a different shirt." Wasn't one of his pre Bulls claims to fame that he scouted/discovered Earl Monroe? Or that after Veeck died he tried to take more credit for the drafting Harold Baines? I always thought Krause was a fraud. |
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| Author: | Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Regular Reader wrote: veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. Purdue for Rodman Bison Dele/Brian Williams Toni Kukoc Ron Harper Iirc Rodman was more of a Reinsdorf hire. Harper was perceived as damaged goods but more importantly, a good friend of MJ. Williams wasn't really anything but a nice bench player and Kukoc never lived up to his billing. Vegan is right on all of those guys (left out Horace though). Krause filled holes with key role players throughout the Jordan years. He rebuilt the “supporting cast” after Jordan’s return. Considering the fact that they never had any high picks during their championship reign, I think that’s a win for any GM. Edit: I’d also add trading Oakley for Cartwright helped them get the 1st 3 rings. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Regular Reader wrote: Curious Hair wrote: There's a clip in The Last Dance where Kerr is like "Krause would go scouting with his Bulls shirt turned inside-out so no one knew it was him. I don't know why he just didn't wear a different shirt." Wasn't one of his pre Bulls claims to fame that he scouted/discovered Earl Monroe? Or that after Veeck died he tried to take more credit for the drafting Harold Baines? I always thought Krause was a fraud. Yes. As a matter of fact, the signature of old-time CSFMB poster Crumbs Krause/Sleuth was simply "I discovered Earl Monroe." Is Krause more or less fraudulent than other GMs around the NBA? Would any GM of the Bulls have been, on some level, a fraud? Krause decided that the way to win was to assemble high-trust, low-drama role-players around the greatest player ever, and I think he did what he set out to do. Other approaches may or may not have worked, we don't know. However, I think any veneration of NBA general managers, now more than ever, is part of an effort to attribute success to management over labor. Fawning sportswriters can go on and on about how the Golden State Warriors are using organizational philosophy out of Silicon Valley, but their shit doesn't work if Steph Curry isn't there, and the won-lost record bears that out. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. He gets credit for all of it. They don't win 1 title without him finding the greatest coach ever and 11 other players. |
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| Author: | Nardi [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Krause was solid. No denying it. But he wasn't a wizard and he had no business taking part in the breakup. It's all on your Uncle. |
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| Author: | Nas [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Nardi wrote: Krause was solid. No denying it. But he wasn't a wizard and he had no business taking part in the breakup. It's all on your Uncle. He wasn't a wizard. I'll never thumb my nose at 6 championships. I'm not sure how much of a fanatic I would be without them |
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| Author: | blackhawksfan [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Jerry was obviously a victim of the toxic masculinity led by white supremacist Michael Jordan! |
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| Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Krause’s timelines and arguments are extremely convoluted. If I’m understanding correctly, Phil told them before the season that he wouldn’t coach a rebuilding team, yet they didn’t decide to rebuild until after the season and the July meeting. Oh, and Jordan wouldn’t play for a different coach than Phil, who had decided he wouldn’t coach the team that hadn’t been conceived of yet in ‘99. Also, Jordan had a hurt finger so they had no choice but to rip the team apart. Also, he got pippen and longley paid by other people, so obviously he made the right call. |
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| Author: | Jaw Breaker [ Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Regular Reader wrote: Kukoc was supposed to be a perennial all star, couldn't play any defense and is only remembered for getting scorched in the Olympics and the 1.8 shot. I've always wondered whether Pippen would've played again for the Bulls if Kukoc had missed the 1.8 shot. He might have been run out of town. |
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| Author: | BigW72 [ Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Krause's words do not address the power struggle that had been firm between him and Phil. That shit ran deep. Of course Phil's ego was enormous and I'm not sure he could have made the right personnel decisions, but at the same time Krause had tremendous ability to piss people off. His ego wasn't so small either. The real wildcard here is Jordan's cigar cutting injury. If it was in face THAT bad and he would have missed the season, all bets are off and they have no chance on winning the 7th ring. It really was probably over by default, but the way it went down was pretty silly. The results post Jordan with Tim Floyd as head coach speak for themselves on Krause's "wizardry". |
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| Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jerry Krause's Unpublished and Unfinished Memoirs |
Douchebag wrote: veganfan21 wrote: Regular Reader wrote: I'll give the guy credit for Pippen, the Phil Jackson hire and putting together benches but not much else in the course of thirty years. Purdue for Rodman Bison Dele/Brian Williams Toni Kukoc Ron Harper San Antonio would have accepted a bag of balls in the Rodman trade. That wasn't some mastermind deal. It was a gamble and it worked. |
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