Magic 1 wrote:
Biggest lock ever.
Yeah, because Cleveland lost a lot of sleep the year they drafted LeBron.
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| If Pax Doesn't Draft Derrick Rose... https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=21295 |
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| Author: | BD [ Fri May 23, 2008 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Pax Doesn't Draft Derrick Rose... |
Magic 1 wrote: The city should burn down the United Center.
The card should already be handed to David Stern with Rose's name on it. Biggest lock ever. Oh yeah, Fuck Kirk Hinrich. Sounds a bit drastic. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri May 23, 2008 2:21 pm ] |
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This kinda talk just amazes me. I want Derrick Rose too, but Beasley is a great pick too. I will be happy with whichever guy Pax chooses. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 2:46 pm ] |
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Yeah, I want Rose, but I wont be upset if they get Beasley. Probably minorly disappointed I would say. Either way we wont have a clue if it was a good pick till 2011. |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Fri May 23, 2008 2:55 pm ] |
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I'll be very disappointed if the Bulls pass up a guy who not only won 2 IHSA Class "AA" Championships and a pair of Chicago Public League titles with Simeon, and put on a clinic in one of those city Championship games on the Bulls' own home court at United Center, but a guy who I think will make them better as soon as he puts on the white & red. To me, the Bulls have a glaring hole at point guard, and the guys they have now aren't as complete as Derrick Rose. I think Bulls' fans are furious at GM John Paxson when they passed up Brandon Roy and made a questionable trade on Draft Day when they drafted LaMarcus Aldridge and traded him to Portland for Tyrus Thomas. The Bulls can NOT make the same mistake again come June 26th, the night of the NBA Draft. This is a golden opportunity, and Pax BETTER NOT SCREW THIS UP like his predecessor Jerry Krause did when he traded Elton Brand to the L.A. Clippers for Tyson Chandler. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri May 23, 2008 3:49 pm ] |
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Brandon Roy is a really good young player, but I do not recall hardly anyone really wanting the Bulls to take him in that draft. I do recall many wanting Aldridge. Hindsight is always 20-20. I am sure if the Bulls take Rose and Beasley ends up being the better player many will be saying "Well I wanted Pax and the Bulls to take Beasley." |
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| Author: | lipidquadcab [ Fri May 23, 2008 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Pax Doesn't Draft Derrick Rose... |
Magic 1 wrote: Biggest lock ever.
Yeah, because Cleveland lost a lot of sleep the year they drafted LeBron. |
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| Author: | schmitty1121 [ Fri May 23, 2008 4:46 pm ] |
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I like both players also, but Rose has to be the pick. Bulls need a leader, and a true PG. |
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| Author: | RFDC [ Fri May 23, 2008 4:58 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: RFDC wrote: Brandon Roy is a really good young player, but I do not recall hardly anyone really wanting the Bulls to take him in that draft. I do recall many wanting Aldridge. Hindsight is always 20-20. I am sure if the Bulls take Rose and Beasley ends up being the better player many will be saying "Well I wanted Pax and the Bulls to take Beasley." I take it you wasn't reading the board at the time. I was all over that pick. I thought he had the highest floor in that draft and would have provided enough flexibility for Paxson to trade Gordon. I easily predicted he would be ROY. I've also been trying to trade Gordon while his value was still high for a few seasons. Unfortunately his value isn't as high now. If Paxson would have listened to me the Bulls lineup may look something like this. Chandler Al Harrington Deng Kobe Roy 1 person in a city of millons... I am sure there were others, but my point remains, hindsight is always 20-20. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 5:12 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: RFDC wrote: Brandon Roy is a really good young player, but I do not recall hardly anyone really wanting the Bulls to take him in that draft. I do recall many wanting Aldridge. Hindsight is always 20-20. I am sure if the Bulls take Rose and Beasley ends up being the better player many will be saying "Well I wanted Pax and the Bulls to take Beasley." I take it you wasn't reading the board at the time. I was all over that pick. I thought he had the highest floor in that draft and would have provided enough flexibility for Paxson to trade Gordon. I easily predicted he would be ROY. I've also been trying to trade Gordon while his value was still high for a few seasons. Unfortunately his value isn't as high now. If Paxson would have listened to me the Bulls lineup may look something like this. Chandler Al Harrington Deng Kobe Roy  You dont get Kobe without giving up Roy, Deng, or both. Im also starting to think Mitch was never gonna trade Kobe, Deng or not.
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| Author: | Tall Midget [ Fri May 23, 2008 5:21 pm ] |
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I would like to know what the basketball sages of the board--Nas, FavreFan, Bagels, etc--think the ceiling is for Beasley. Who will he be next year? In three years? In five years? And how does his potential compare to Rose's? Mike DeCourcey says Beasley may be a 24 and 10 guy as soon as next year, but he also argues that Beasley will never have a dominant low-post, back-to-the-basket game and won't be able to overpower opponents at the next level. This assessment strikes me as a bit enigmatic, so I'd like to hear the detailed analyses of the CSFMB basketball intelligentsia. Is Beasley a game-changer or not? A future top ten player, or something less? And why? Paint me a picture, gentlemen. Edit: And FavreFan, I know you're not a big college basketball guy, but I still want your thoughts. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 5:34 pm ] |
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From what I have seen of Beasley, and it is limited to highlights and analysis from guys more informed than I am, I think he will be a better Zach Randolph, with a better attitude and a more physical body. I also expect him to be a better defender because its tough to get worse than Zach. It seems like he will be able to score from anywhere inside 15 feet almost at will. He can score with his back to the basket, or facing the basket. His back to the basket game seems more developed than Randolph's. Im the most worried about his passing game, and his basketball IQ. I havent heard anyone call him an idiot, but I also havent heard praise for that area of his game. Tim Duncan was an excellent passer and all around player coming into the league. KG very quickly developed his all around game also. In my opinion thats what seperates them from their counterparts. I think Beasley will be as good a post-scorer as there is in the league within the next couple years, I just dont know if his all around game and defensive abilities will be good enough to transcend him to the level of carrying a team to a championship. One thing that is so often overlooked in terms of basketball is attitude. That is almost as important as talent. I have no idea what Beasley's attitude is like, and that will be as much a determining factor as his ability in how his career pans out. Its one of the reasons Ben Wallace was considered one of the most dominant defensive players of his generation, and one of the reasons Carmelo will never lead a team to a championship. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 5:54 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: I think he is a combination of Duncan and KG (more KG) but with better ball handling skills and range.
I've heard he has better range but not one analyst I've heard or read has said he has better ball handling skills than any post player in the NBA. Duncan and KG have as good of ball handling skills as any post player in the league. Also they, along with Camby, are the best defensive big men in the league. You think Beasley will win a DPOY or multiple? Im not saying hes not, like I said, my knowledge is limited as of now, but I havent really heard anyone praise his defense or ball handling skills. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 6:06 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: FavreFan wrote: From what I have seen of Beasley, and it is limited to highlights and analysis from guys more informed than I am, I think he will be a better Zach Randolph, with a better attitude and a more physical body. I also expect him to be a better defender because its tough to get worse than Zach. It seems like he will be able to score from anywhere inside 15 feet almost at will. He can score with his back to the basket, or facing the basket. His back to the basket game seems more developed than Randolph's. I still believe comparing him to Zach Randolph is an insult. Beasley can also knock down the 3 and he blocks shots and steals the ball. Im comparing his talent to Zach's. From what I've seen and heard I think thats a valid comparison. Zach Randolph could be as good as Chris Bosh if he gave a shit. Im gonna wait and see on how good a defender Beasley is. Im not sold yet. I think he will be a dominant offensive player. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 6:07 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: FavreFan wrote: Nas wrote: I think he is a combination of Duncan and KG (more KG) but with better ball handling skills and range. I've heard he has better range but not one analyst I've heard or read has said he has better ball handling skills than any post player in the NBA. Duncan and KG have as good of ball handling skills as any post player in the league. Also they, along with Camby, are the best defensive big men in the league. You think Beasley will win a DPOY or multiple? Im not saying hes not, like I said, my knowledge is limited as of now, but I havent really heard anyone praise his defense or ball handling skills. He can handle the ball like a SF. His defense isn't on the level as Duncan's when he came into the league but he is a better defender than KG. KG is as good a defender as there is in the league. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 6:10 pm ] |
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There was like a 200% chance that TM asking mine and Nas's opinion on the same thing was going to turn into a debate. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri May 23, 2008 6:14 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: The more I think about Beasley the more I think he may be the safest pick and possibly the better pick.
He might be, but I'd still have Rose under the theory that if they both meet expectations, a game changing PG is more important than a game changing PF in today's NBA. |
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| Author: | Woodridge Ryan [ Fri May 23, 2008 6:58 pm ] |
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Give me Beasley. Too many friends and acquaintaces in this city for D Rose to deal with. It won't be a good situation. I already heard him talking about hos he's going to need to get tickets for all these people. I just see a lot of problems coming his way if he lives here. The kid is 19. There are too many people that will try to latch on to him and have a better chance at it then if he went somewhere else. For his sake, I hope he is in a Heat uniform. |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Fri May 23, 2008 7:02 pm ] |
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C'mon. Yeah, there are gonna be people trying to ride his success. That is gonna happen wherever he plays. I've heard him interviewed and heard others comment on him. He's a grounded kid. He really cares about basketball and wants to be great. Don't worry about him being from Chicago. |
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| Author: | M_C [ Fri May 23, 2008 7:33 pm ] |
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Based on JP's mediocre success of drafting guards, BG and KH high first round, CD high second, I would change things up and take Beasly. I think they took that guy Brand a couple years ago "semi" high in the first round (similar to Beasly), and he seemed to turn out pretty damn good (although not on the bulls). Or with JP's conservative style, he could trade down the first pick for 3 second round picks and scope Kansas, UConn, and Duke, for their best guards (even if the lads don't have an agent or aren't ready to declare yet) |
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| Author: | My Coach Vinny [ Fri May 23, 2008 10:01 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: The more I think about Beasley the more I think he may be the safest pick and possibly the better pick.
Oddly, I started out thinking Beasley, but after watching just about all the footage on the interwebs of both Beasley and Rose, I absolutely want Rose. |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Fri May 23, 2008 10:06 pm ] |
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I'll be honest. I never watched much of Beasley. Don't know much about him. I've seen highlights and respect what experts say about him. He'll probably be good. But you have to take Rose cuz he has a chance to be great. |
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| Author: | Woodridge Ryan [ Sat May 24, 2008 11:02 pm ] |
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Beardown wrote: C'mon.
Yeah, there are gonna be people trying to ride his success. That is gonna happen wherever he plays. I've heard him interviewed and heard others comment on him. He's a grounded kid. He really cares about basketball and wants to be great. Don't worry about him being from Chicago. Beardown, I wouldn't just blow this off because you think he's a "grounded kid." Well now he is going to have millions of dollars. He's 19. He already has many established friends in the city...some, hell, I would assume many, are still in high school. He also has all of his family - those that are close and those that now want to be close - that will be around too. Now you throw in someone like his AAU coach that'll be less than a phone call away. He'll be in his ear a lot still...I'm just saying, it's not all roses Beardown to have Derrick come here. To just blatantly blow off this scenario as possible is a huge mistake. |
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| Author: | Elmhurst Steve [ Sat May 24, 2008 11:36 pm ] |
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It was interesting to see on ESPN the night of the draft lottery, that all but 2 states voted that the Bulls should use the #1 pick on Beasley. Illinois was one of two that voted for Rose, which I think is the right pick. I think he's one of those rare talents that has a huge upside. Beasley will be a very good player too, but I see Rose having the ability to make players around him significantly better. It would be nice to get a post-up player like Beasley too, but I like Rose best. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sun May 25, 2008 12:46 pm ] |
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Woodridge Ryan wrote: Beardown wrote: C'mon. Yeah, there are gonna be people trying to ride his success. That is gonna happen wherever he plays. I've heard him interviewed and heard others comment on him. He's a grounded kid. He really cares about basketball and wants to be great. Don't worry about him being from Chicago. Beardown, I wouldn't just blow this off because you think he's a "grounded kid." Well now he is going to have millions of dollars. He's 19. He already has many established friends in the city...some, hell, I would assume many, are still in high school. He also has all of his family - those that are close and those that now want to be close - that will be around too. Now you throw in someone like his AAU coach that'll be less than a phone call away. He'll be in his ear a lot still...I'm just saying, it's not all roses Beardown to have Derrick come here. To just blatantly blow off this scenario as possible is a huge mistake. So are you making the argument that being the Hometown kid should count as a negative when making these decisions? |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sun May 25, 2008 4:07 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: I think he is saying that something like that should be factored in the equation. Especially with a kid that is as raw as Rose.
I know what he was saying but it doesnt answer my question. |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Sun May 25, 2008 4:52 pm ] |
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Woodridge Ryan wrote: Beardown wrote: C'mon. Yeah, there are gonna be people trying to ride his success. That is gonna happen wherever he plays. I've heard him interviewed and heard others comment on him. He's a grounded kid. He really cares about basketball and wants to be great. Don't worry about him being from Chicago. Beardown, I wouldn't just blow this off because you think he's a "grounded kid." Well now he is going to have millions of dollars. He's 19. He already has many established friends in the city...some, hell, I would assume many, are still in high school. He also has all of his family - those that are close and those that now want to be close - that will be around too. Now you throw in someone like his AAU coach that'll be less than a phone call away. He'll be in his ear a lot still...I'm just saying, it's not all roses Beardown to have Derrick come here. To just blatantly blow off this scenario as possible is a huge mistake. Woody, if everything was even between Beasley and Rose I would say go against the home town kid. But it's not even. You can't be a talent evaluator and go away from a potential star because you are worried about him having bad influences. That's insane. If Pax passes and Rose becomes a super star do you think people will say the following? "Well, that's OK cuz it wouldn't have worked out in Chicago. His friends would have corrupted him. In Chicago he would have gotten DUIs, became addicted to crack, raped numerous women, and he would have shot someone in a drive-by." You can GM a team thinking that way. Especially with a kid like Rose who has never been in trouble. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sun May 25, 2008 6:13 pm ] |
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Beardown wrote: In Chicago he would have gotten DUIs, became addicted to crack, raped numerous women, and he would have shot someone in a drive-by."
Well he IS going into the NBA. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sun May 25, 2008 9:44 pm ] |
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Nas wrote: I think the Bulls should go with Beasley. The last time they picked a player with potential that played well in the tournament it hasn't worked out.
To not select Rose because you messed up the Thomas pick is dumb logic. There's no correlation there. |
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| Author: | Beardown [ Sun May 25, 2008 9:47 pm ] |
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No, my point is Pax shouldn't go against Rose cuz he's from Chicago. Look, if he likes Beasley better just cuz he projects him better at basketball then that's fine. I disagree. Rose will be better. I'm just saying don't assume Rose will become a criminal just because he's drafted in his home town. If you're a jack ass you're a jack ass. No matter what city you come from or go to. We've seen a lot of ass holes in Chicago come from all around the country. |
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