C_Howitt_Fealz wrote:
12 feet in the living room.
Damn, you'd think a
like Joakim would have cathedral ceilings, or at least a loft with high ceilings. Disappointed.
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| Joakim Noah's Ceiling https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=38691 |
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| Author: | West46thStreet [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
Just exactly what is it? Can he at some point become a double double guy? I pose the question after having been pleasantly surprised with his play towards the end of last year through the 1st round, and his, at least to me; commitment in the off season to become a better basketball player. I think it's obvious someone or something has gotten to him. He's bigger, stronger and doesn't seem to get winded as easily. I know I'm not breaking new ground with these observations, but I've also been impressed with his offensive skill set this preseason. I'm not suggesting he is now or ever will be the post presence the Bulls have been searching for, but maybe he can at least be a viable option to occasionally keep the defense honest. His career numbers of 6.7 ppg and 6.6 rpg don't scream puzzle piece, I think things such as his 22.5 mpg going way up and the Rose factor can lead him to double double land. The Rose factor being my belief that with Derrick having more and more control of the offense, the team will continually produce better and more efficient offensive possessions. Efficient possessions one would hope, would lead to open shots which would lead to more defensive rotation, thus allowing Noah to pick up garbage points and more offensive rebounds. Am I crazy? I'm drawing a blank though, in finding a comparable player historically that he can become to further my argument. Maybe somebody can help me out. |
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| Author: | C_Howitt_Fealz [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
12 feet in the living room. |
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| Author: | West46thStreet [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
C_Howitt_Fealz wrote: 12 feet in the living room. That's pretty good. |
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| Author: | Apologist [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
He's better than a say... Jason Caffey. Could he a Kurt Thomas or even a Marcus Camby? I don't know. I think he's a solid role player. I'm not sure if he's a starting center on a good team... |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
i think he can be as productive as tyson chandler. I think he's a starting center on a good team |
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| Author: | West46thStreet [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
Apologist wrote: He's better than a say... Jason Caffey. Could he a Kurt Thomas or even a Marcus Camby? I don't know. I think he's a solid role player. I'm not sure if he's a starting center on a good team... I can kinda see the Kurt Thomas thing, though even with the new found muscle I doubt he can become the physical presence Kurt was. Camby played a different type game didn't he? I don't see Joakim as that shot blocker a la Camby. I just cant find a suitable comparison. He's at least as handsome as Paul Mokeski and Randy Bruer, but he damn sure better be a player than both of them. |
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| Author: | Apologist [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
what I meant by Camby was that he's a guy who doesn't need to score or run plays for to affect the game. Thomas would actually be his ideal archetype to evolve into. Any fan would take a Kurt Thomas type career out of Joakim.. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
no way he'll ever be as good as kurt as an offensive player. You'll never see noah have that short-mid range jumper he had |
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| Author: | Jack Bauer [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
Apologist wrote: what I meant by Camby was that he's a guy who doesn't need to score or run plays for to affect the game. Thomas would actually be his ideal archetype to evolve into. Any fan would take a Kurt Thomas type career out of Joakim.. I would absolutely take that. Thomas had some pretty good years with the Knicks. FavreFan wrote: no way he'll ever be as good as kurt as an offensive player. You'll never see noah have that short-mid range jumper he had That's the issue. I'd like to see it happen, but I doubt it will. |
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| Author: | Bulldog Scott [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
I think his ceiling is comparable to what Tyson did his first year with Chris Paul; 10 points and 12 boards a night. |
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| Author: | IkeSouth [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
joakim noah will be the next tim duncan |
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| Author: | West46thStreet [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
Bulldog Scott wrote: I think his ceiling is comparable to what Tyson did his first year with Chris Paul; 10 points and 12 boards a night. I really do think that's reasonable barring any major injuries that require a new philosophy. Would anyone be opposed to more Miller and Noah on the court at the same time? I'm intrigued by it but don't know how realistic it would be in crunch time. We need Spinnin Bucket or the Slueth to chime in on this one. |
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| Author: | Scorehead [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
I was at the Bulls final pre-season game Friday night. Noah's game has improved. One thing that I noticed about Noah last night is his shot technique, which is unlike any other player that I have ever seen. When he shoots, he does this wierd two handed shot thingy that puts side spin on the ball...the ball actually spins sideways instead of virtically with backspin. Very strange. But he played hard last night & had a double double. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
no miller and noah at the same time is bad. They cant in out on the perimeter to guard 4's with range and they are too slow footed to effectively rotate on defense. Miller is great for the role he's in now |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
Marcus Camby is a good target (Man je was an absolute beast at UMASS). Id be happy if he turned into a big reb, blk guy. Avg 10 ppg 12 reb. I had very low expectations when they drafted him. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
i've liked him since draft night, outfit withstanding. I think he's close to reaching the potential i said he had a couple years ago here |
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| Author: | SHARK [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
While Derrick Rose's game will continue to improve, I think Joakim Noah's in for a breakthrough season for the Bulls this year. I think Noah averages 10 points & 15 rebounds this season, thanks in large part to what he did in that 7-game playoff gutcheck vs. Boston and the extra time in the weight room during the offseason will pay dividends. Noah might warrant some All-Star consideration if he does, especially given the lack of true centers in the East beyond an aging Shaquille O'Neal in Cleveland & Dwight Howard in Orlando. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
...has a mirror on it. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
SHARK wrote: While Derrick Rose's game will continue to improve, I think Joakim Noah's in for a breakthrough season for the Bulls this year. I think Noah averages 10 points & 15 rebounds this season, thanks in large part to what he did in that 7-game playoff gutcheck vs. Boston and the extra time in the weight room during the offseason will pay dividends. Noah might warrant some All-Star consideration if he does, especially given the lack of true centers in the East beyond an aging Shaquille O'Neal in Cleveland & Dwight Howard in Orlando. No quotes. No Strained Physical comparisons. Original Thought. Details to back it up. Someone got a hold of SHARK's password |
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| Author: | City of Fools [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
FavreFan wrote: i've liked him since draft night, outfit withstanding. I think he's close to reaching the potential i said he had a couple years ago here wow. He'll be Tyson all right, but less athleticisim. No range whatsoever, gets in the way on offense, picks up cheap fouls, can't pass. On the good side, he's young, cheap, fast and has put weight on. Great. No basketball IQ whatsoever. Now, if they can arrange a brain transplant with Brad Miller and Joking, we'll have something. |
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| Author: | NearWessSideHussra [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
C_Howitt_Fealz wrote: 12 feet in the living room. Damn, you'd think a like Joakim would have cathedral ceilings, or at least a loft with high ceilings. Disappointed.
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| Author: | City of Fools [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
saw a plus minus stat a while back that had the Bulls at their worst last season when Joakim and Tyrus were on the floor together. Great drafting, Johnny Jump Shot... |
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| Author: | NearWessSideHussra [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
Some interesting reads on use of +/- numbers to evaluate NBA talent: "Beech told me he considered plus/minus ratings, as adjusted by regression analysis, “one of the most over-hyped player rating systems.” He pointed to the incongruous finding that Telfair is more valuable than Nowitzki, and blamed other questionable results — San Antonio Spurs point guard Tony Parker as a below-average player — on a paucity of data on top players’ performance without their star teammates. Beech also argued that there is too much noise in the system, because a player’s value is determined by coaching schemes, injuries and their assigned roles." http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/mark-cu ... mbers-580/ http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba- ... e-numbers/ |
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| Author: | City of Fools [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
I'm not sure if plus minus is the right phrase to use. All I know is whenever those two were on the floor (specifically against the Celtics) the Bulls went downhill. Versus when they had Brad Miller in, they tended to either make up lost points or at least keep it even. |
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| Author: | Brick [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
He's the kind of player you need to win a championship. He's not the kind of player that wins you a championship. |
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| Author: | City of Fools [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
with Tyrus's and Joakim's spots both, you could have had a starter on a championship team. Neither of the aformentioned are of that caliber. The Trailblazers are thanking us for LaMarcus. Now THAT'S a team that drafts well... Brandon Roy-thought he was one of the top 5 point guards in the league and he's the only player that showed up for the playoffs last season... LaMarcus-great offensive player whose defense doesn't kill you Travis Outlaw-bad playoffs but a good player Gred Oden-doesn't count. #1 draft pick and you can't really miss there. Unless your name is Joe Smith or Michael Olawokandi. |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
City of Fools wrote: with Tyrus's and Joakim's spots both, you could have had a starter on a championship team. Neither of the aformentioned are of that caliber. The Trailblazers are thanking us for LaMarcus. Now THAT'S a team that drafts well... Brandon Roy-thought he was one of the top 5 point guards in the league and he's the only player that showed up for the playoffs last season... LaMarcus-great offensive player whose defense doesn't kill you Travis Outlaw-bad playoffs but a good player Gred Oden-doesn't count. #1 draft pick and you can't really miss there. Unless your name is Joe Smith or Michael Olawokandi. Not sure Oden is a good example |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
City of Fools wrote: The Trailblazers are thanking us for LaMarcus. Now THAT'S a team that drafts well...  
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| Author: | City of Fools [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
what's funny is, that was the right pick for the team. Were you going to move Drexler to point guard? Greg Oden will be a very good NBA player if he stays healthy. He'll be an excellent defensive player with a passable offensive game. Hard to find good bigs these days with a good basketball IQ. He does remind me injury wise of Sam Bowie. But Bowie had a good offensive game... |
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| Author: | rogers park bryan [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Joakim Noah's Ceiling |
City of Fools wrote: what's funny is, that was the right pick for the team. Were you going to move Drexler to point guard? Greg Oden will be a very good NBA player if he stays healthy. He'll be an excellent defensive player with a passable offensive game. Hard to find good bigs these days with a good basketball IQ. He does remind me injury wise of Sam Bowie. But Bowie had a good offensive game... Just from reading this thread. I think you overvalue Basketball I.Q. What about Oden suggests he will ever stay healthy? He is Fra-G-Lay |
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